VAT on school fees - High Court Challenge.

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Labour’s plan to impose VAT on private school fees in January faces a High Court legal challenge over claims it breaches human rights law.

Lawyers have written to HM Treasury arguing the policy discriminates against special needs children and has threatened court action if it is not dropped.

Showtime…

‘The high court would almost certainly hear the case, but the most likely thing is that Labour will be advised to withdraw the policy before it reaches court’

Why do you say this @TealTraybake and @Daddybegood ?

A university education is not accessible by all and yet I am guessing both government school and private school parents would think it’s unfair if their kids were suddenly being charged an extra 20% half way during their degrees.

‘And those that dislike and want to make worse off the advantaged and well off in society. These people tend to be the angry vocal ones.’

There are so many of these people it seems. They must have such unhappy lives, to wish ill of others to make themselves feel better. Sad really.

@ItsAShame2 but university is not compulsory, that's the difference.

I agree with you, I think this is probably going to cost more than it raises but it still raises cash and that seems to be labours main aim, not the people. This is education and children they are messing about with for a 'quick win', it needs a total overhaul, with new modern relevant approach to the education system. They are just putting band aids all over it till it totally falls apart.

Ah right see what you mean about the 2 types of left wingers.

Do we have an update on the story of the LEA that asked a parent for proof they couldn't afford their school fees before offering state place?

Yes, but is not the role of private school parents to fill this gap. May be check the wealthy people in posh areas using state schools rather than the people saving the state by sending kids to private school.

@Werweisswohin

"It's possible to aspire to and reach standards without competition."

"It's possible to aspire to and reach standards without competition. If we remove the political indoctrination aspect, and improve general SEN support/resource/funding, then we could perhaps learn a bit from socialist (even communist) schooling models. Also, the Scottish system, where most children go to the neareast local school, might be a good idea to encourage."

This makes absolutely no sense at all.

Socialist and communist schooling was all about political indoctrination and how well you progressed educationally was linked to how well you towed the party line.

CurlewKate · Today 19:40
Do we have an update on the story of the LEA that asked a parent for proof they couldn't afford their school fees before offering state place

Did you not see the piece in the Telegraph? IIRC you were on the thread where it was linked.
The council’s excuse was quite odd, saying ‘they wanted to “apologise for the choice of language” and insisted it did not reflect any formal policy.’

@Barbadossunset No-I missed that. So it was a "misunderstanding?" Good.

Thank you.

So it was a "misunderstanding?" Good.

The email from Buckinghamshire council said: “Unfortunately we cannot offer any places at your preferred school/s as they are full”. It continued: “In this circumstance, we would normally advocate that [the child] should remain at their current school. However, if you can provide evidence that you can no longer finance the independent school fees, please advise and we can make a local authority non-preference allocation.

It states quite clearly the parents must provide evidence that they can’t afford the fees before a place at a state school can be found. I don’t quite know how a sentence as unequivocal as that can be ‘a misunderstanding’
What else could they have meant?

My mother was a state school teacher. She would have never supported this cruel policy. I would never understand any teachers of state or private who would and are kind and care for children. Perhaps they care about a certain ideology?

Closing the attainment gap and wealth divide in the UK would offer significant long-term benefits to the economy. By improving educational outcomes, a more skilled workforce would emerge, boosting productivity. The Sutton Trust estimates that this could add billions to the UK economy. Lowering wealth inequality would reduce reliance on welfare and decrease crime-related costs, saving the government money.

Greater economic stability would result, as more people with higher incomes would boost consumer spending. Studies by the IMF show that reducing inequality supports more sustainable growth. Additionally, improving social mobility would foster innovation and drive long-term economic growth, according to the London School of Economics.

Health outcomes would also improve, reducing NHS costs and creating a more productive workforce. Enhanced social cohesion, with fewer divisions between classes, would create a stable environment for businesses.

“Closing the attainment gap and wealth divide in the UK would offer significant long-term benefits to the economy. By improving educational outcomes, a more skilled workforce would emerge, boosting productivity. The Sutton Trust estimates that this could add billions to the UK economy. Lowering wealth inequality would reduce reliance on welfare and decrease crime-related costs, saving the government money.

Greater economic stability would result, as more people with higher incomes would boost consumer spending. Studies by the IMF show that reducing inequality supports more sustainable growth. Additionally, improving social mobility would foster innovation and drive long-term economic growth, according to the London School of Economics.

Health outcomes would also improve, reducing NHS costs and creating a more productive workforce. Enhanced social cohesion, with fewer divisions between classes, would create a stable environment for businesses.”

And the impacts of being seen as a socialist country now following the non dom move and now this? What will the total impact be on foreign direct investment etc of policies like this? Can it be quantified? Impact on currency in the short term etc and given cost of borrowing and imports of energy etc and being a net importer?
It has got to be a balance of internal and external and non conventional moves like this may cost the country dearly? Who is going to do the Maths? Can it actually be done?

Well we're not a communist dictatorship so we simply wouldn't include it on the curriculum (other than in history lessons). I'd have thought that was fairly obvious.
East Germany would be one example. The current German system is far from ideal, according to many Germans.

@amigafan2003

"Closing the attainment gap and wealth divide in the UK would offer significant long-term benefits to the economy. By improving educational outcomes, a more skilled workforce would emerge, boosting productivity"

I completely agree with the goal of reducing inequality but by making state education better and not by disincentivising private education.

Otherwise whilst you may have achieved greater equality this will have be achieved by averaging down rather than averaging up.

And by averaging down the educational outcomes then you will have a lower skilled workforce which would reduce productivity further

It really makes no sense at all.

Government school? You mean state school.

Well we're not a communist dictatorship so we simply wouldn't include it on the curriculum (other than in history lessons). I'd have thought that was fairly obvious.

@Werweisswohin ok, so could you enlarge on the principles of these schooling models?

Actually, while indoctrination was undeniably part of the system, the overall structure shouldn't be discounted.

There's lots of information out there, far too much to type out.
It was far from perfect but some aspects of it were definitely of value. I don't expect most folk who support private schools being subsidised will see any value whatsoever though.

I thought historians largely agree that the reason Chinese and Russian Socialist Education policy was so successful was largely because they managed to educate a rural population with little literacy skills really quickly over a couple of generations from virtually nothing. Our starting points are entirely different. We need highly specialised skilled service workers primarily. It is the opposite end of the scale?

In fact, Labour should be copying what the most elite private schools do across its own education policy if we want to succeed?

How is that achieved by charging VAT on private schools?

Do you agree that it's mad that universities don't charge Vat? Vat is charged on training plumbers, mechanics, carpenters, HGV Drivers, etc etc but not universities. It's a scandal that universities are exempt of VAT now.

Improving state education to reduce inequality is a valid goal, but addressing the wealth divide and unequal access to resources also requires considering the role of private education. If private education remains a pathway for the wealthier, it risks perpetuating a two-tier system where only a portion of society benefits from superior educational opportunities. I agree that averaging up should be the aim, but without reforms to both sectors, the gap will persist.

The argument that raising equality would "average down" education assumes that improving state education will somehow lower private education standards, which is not necessarily true. Enhancing state education doesn't require diminishing private institutions (nor is that the intention/probable outcome of the VAT introduction), but rather lifting the overall standard through increased funding and also encouraging wealthy families to engage within (and improve) the state education sector.