VAT on school fees - High Court Challenge.

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Labour’s plan to impose VAT on private school fees in January faces a High Court legal challenge over claims it breaches human rights law.

Lawyers have written to HM Treasury arguing the policy discriminates against special needs children and has threatened court action if it is not dropped.

Showtime…

*Now then - your comment that you want Labour to ban all private and grammar schools (your words).

Please explain why.*

You know the reasons.

but in brief ...

They promote inequality in an already unequal society. I want all children to have equal opportunities and the foundation of that it an excellent efucation free to all.

@Werweisswohin

"We don't want competition between schools, we want them all to be a decent standard. 🫣"

And precisely how will this be achieved without competition? Just spending more taxpayer's money?

I totally believe the government should spend more on education as it is an investment in the economy, but without competition there is absolutely no incentive for schools to spend this money wisely.

@Jorvik1

Do they promote inequality? What evidence do you have for that?

In some parts of the country, i.e. not Kent or London, they are the only way out of poverty for poor but bright children.

On the contrary, some people see this as being an example of Labour's petty spite in reviving an old chestnut which will only please ancient Labour diehards.
Look at Starmer's targets - the children of middle class ambitious parents. Presumably he doesn't see the parents as Labour voters so it's safe to please his diehards. Such a pity.he doesn't put his efforts into improving state education so that there would be no need for private school.

Look at another target of Starmer's -OAPs, many of whom have a distressing habit of voting Tory. It's safe to attack their welfare, he thought, and has done ao with zealous
about how the Tories made him do it.

The very young and the old are fair game to him. How did he ever get into Downing Street?

Schools do already get government funding based on the number of students they have, so that state competition is already there.

But what it would do is drive beneficial parent behaviour, by incentivising parents to invest in their childrens' education.

At present, there's a huge cliff edge in investing in your DC's education. In order to invest anything. you have to forfeit the whole £7k government funding your child is entitled to. It makes no sense to do that if you only have £5k to spend on your child's education, or even £10k.

But imagine how much much better UK education would be funded if all parents could top up their children's education, even at lower amounts.

The UK benefits from children getting additional investment in their education: regardless of which children get the extra education and regardless of who pays for it.

YES. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

I work in a private school and I 100% agree with what you’ve just said.

It's possible to aspire to and reach standards without competition. If we remove the political indoctrination aspect, and improve general SEN support/resource/funding, then we could perhaps learn a bit from socialist (even communist) schooling models. Also, the Scottish system, where most children go to the neareast local school, might be a good idea to encourage.

No no no. Labour don’t want competition! Everybody Has to be Equal. Preferably equally crap. No one is allowed to be more intelligent, or wealthier than anyone else. That’s so unfair. Hush your mouth. Competition, who ever would countenance such a thing.

*Except them. They’re allowed to have nicer things.

Arts talent won't be exempt because Britain doesn't need talent. It's a luxury the country can't afford and it's unfair that some people are talented anyway 😂

That's not remotely close to what I wrote.

@1dayatatime

gotmychristmasmiracle
I think the whole state/private school thing needs a total overhaul in the uk. Whereby everyone gets £10k per child per year to send to the school of their choice and if it's private, then top it up. Australia currently use this system and it works well. Seems like a more inclusive option, especially if scholarships can be available. Might send more kids to private schools and take pressure of government financially.

Also it would drive competition between state schools. Good state schools would get more money, bad state schools would get less money.

Hadn't really thought about that, but would definitely highlight schools with problems and hopefully government could focus on these ie need closing/retrain/restructure school.

They’ve just stopped the ofstead ratings system. This will enable more waffle and less (no) competition. Whatever they replace it with, it will only serve to protect failing schools.I'm not suggesting it was the ideal system, but it’s surely better than every school getting a certificate for participation.

True.. I wasn’t directing my comment to you! More a generalisation.

I think adding VAT to private schools fees actually puts more of a gap between rich and poor to be honest. The gap is getting bigger and therefore children from less affluent families can never get to private schools. I don't think labour have really thought this through and just looking at easy ways to get cash flow. This is nothing to do with education or children/families well being.

People often suggest the Scottish system but it only works due to low population density and good land availability. Whereas we have the opposite in most of the SE where the majority of the English population lives.

Edinburgh has rather similar issues to the SE.

We finally got a new primary school in our populous outer London Borough. It had to be in a disused council office for a year and then they squished it onto a small site where a care home used to be. It has been well designed but they have to go off site for PE.

My comprehensive cannot expand as it is surrounded by other schools, covenanted green space, expensive housing and social housing, none of which is likely to get knocked down or built on.

@strawberrybubblegum whilst I have sympathy with your position, trying to suggest that kids with SEN in private schools are somehow less deserving than your DS is unpalatable and distasteful. Parents of children with a SEN need to support each other not create a hierarchy of needs. Dyslexia is absolutely a serious, education limiting issue that has massive ramifications for some children. Anxiety can lead to self harm etc.

But if you want to continue down the selfish route; the more children having their SEN needs provided for by the private sector, the more money there will be available for those in state education. Many, many children in my DC’s fairly average prep school would get a EHCP under the legal requirements, but don’t have one as they hace never needed to. There are quite a few I know of in the queue now for ehcps as it creates options for them going forward if they struggle with fees; the delay for ehcp has now become multi year in our area (from circa 18 months a year ago). And they’ll be using solicitors and barristers to push their children’s ehcps to the front of the queue. Not ideal, but there are consequences to divisive policies.

If we remove the political indoctrination aspect, and improve general SEN support/resource/funding, then we could perhaps learn a bit from socialist (even communist) schooling models.

@Werweisswohin how do you remove political indoctrination from socialist and communist schools?
Any particular communist schooling models? The former East Germany, maybe?

@strawberrybubblegum

Good point and I agree

I think this is what people that use the equality argument forget. Life isn't equal in any aspect of our capitalist world and it certainly won't be in education even if you abolished private schools altogether.

Parents with the means, motivation and knowledge to play the system will always advance ahead of those without these things. They will be much more likely to get ECHPs for their kids that need them, more likely to get their kids into the best schools and more likely to fight for the expensive state provision they feel their kids need. If there was unlimited money and resource then this wouldn't be such a problem but sadly we are working with already stretched budgets. Parents paying for this specialist provision through private schools is more beneficial to those that also need it but can't afford it, than having these privileged parents compete with the unprivileged for scarce resource. I think we all know who will win out in this kind of situation and it will sadly be the most deprived kids that pay the price for this stupid policy.

Perhaps you should keep with the news and updated. Many parents have been denied state school and some have been asked to proof they can’t afford private school. However, private education is not a luxury is a choice of when the state does not cater for the needs of a family. It is not taxable anywhere in the world.

Huh? I think you're @ ing the wrong poster.

@gotmychristmasmiracle

"I don't think labour have really thought this through and just looking at easy ways to get cash flow."

From a tax raising perspective I genuinely think it will cost more than it actually raises in tax revenue, so it really isn't an easy way to get cash.

From a political perspective what is does do is to be seen to be bashing the rich who can afford an education perceived to be better for their children than most others cannot.

As I previously posted there are two types of left wing politicians and voters.

Those that want to help and improve the position of the disadvantaged and less well off in society. These people tend to be the considered and quieter ones.

And those that dislike and want to make worse off the advantaged and well off in society. These people tend to be the angry vocal ones

Read carefully what @dodo23 writes. They handily gloss over the fact that the provision may be inadequate and state that even in this case, anyone paying for an adequate education is enjoying a luxury. Since when has an adequate education been considered a luxury? What is the world coming to! Wouldn't a sensible country want as much of their population as possible educated to at least an adequate standard? Why would we disincentivise parents funding this for their kids by whacking on a load of tax? It is insane!

Disgusting and vile man. A wolf in sheep clothes.

As I previously posted there are two types of left wing politicians and voters.
Those that want to help and improve the position of the disadvantaged and less well off in society. These people tend to be the considered and quieter ones.
And those that dislike and want to make worse off the advantaged and well off in society. These people tend to be the angry vocal ones.

@CurlewKate presumably you disagree with @1dayatatime’s 4th sentence?