VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

'generational white locals' are not a homogenous group, you know.

Where we differ is that I can only see this as a good thing. The more wealthy, articulate, motivated parents in the state sector the better it is for everyone.
@pintofsnakebite

Maybe, but there are far more comments as @Giveitup81 says:
These threads repeatedly say how selfish private school parents are so why would you expect anything else?

If these private school children are so entitled, spoilt and snobby with similar parents who according to several posters, don’t want their children mixing with the riff-raff, then surely state schools should be dreading them?
(Unless of course it’s an opportunity to put them and their ghastly children in their place)

But I don't think that about private school children so I'm not sure what your point is.

Plenty of selfish spoilt children in state schools too.

selective independants at prep are usually 1-2 years ahead than state primaries. Individual students might be 2-3 years ahead depending on interests.

One of my friends is fuming because her DD’s primary recut their g&t / high achieving programmes due to an influx from the nearby high performing but expensive private prep. The top sets are now full of kids only from the prep. They’re doing similar with the competitive PE sports and launching sports the existing students have never played like Rugby, golf and Hockey.

The school views this as positive because the new parents are willing to fund / sponsor teams / buy school equipment. But this only really benefits the ex-private school kids as their parents have been careful not to get involved in wider school activities.

In that case feel free to lecture the Black Mumsnetters about the lack of homogeny in white areas when they're asking advice on where to move to in the country of their birth, I'm sure they'll be delighted and reassured.

But I don't think that about private school children so I'm not sure what your point is.

You may not, but plenty do. Since you post frequently on the private/state school topics I’m surprised you haven’t seen these posts.

@Ozanj so you are saying that at a friend's state primary there has been a huge influx of children from selective independent prep schools? That these same students have populated gifted and talented programmes to the detriment of other children. (do we still have g & t programmes in state schools? Or is it now something else?). Also that the parents of these children are setting up exclusive sports clubs again to the detriment of other children.

DD is black. I grew up in a 'homogenous white' area.

I don't want DD to be the 'token black ' child. But that's not what we are talking about in most cases.

We are talking about a white child not mixing with white children of a lower socio-economic background in preference for a more 'diverse' racial background, but from a similar socio-economic background

I.e. 'diversity' is being seen purely in racial terms

Well, yes. It shows how committed these parents are to anything other than their child, despite claims about 'saving the state money', private schools 'supporting the state sector' etc

Yes. My friend lives in the catchment of several amazing state grammars but until recently the ‘private set’ weren’t interested in competing. Now they are kids in state primaries don’t really stand a chance even with tutoring.

I suspect in well sought after grammar catchments with expensive private schools nearby this will become the norm now - ie part-privately educated kids will be supplanting those educated fully in state in grammars. The primary loves it and is encouraging these new parents as they have the cash.

All parents do this to an extent. But parents who leave the private sector have more cash they’re willing to spend to get what they want.

Ultimately there are a group of parents who are only committed to advancing their own children.

Fair enough.

But time to stop their tax breaks, and to call out the bullshit about how this benefits other children or society in general

@Ozanj - Okay, well the amazing state grammars need to catch up a bit because gifted and talented programmes were discontinued in 2010. I am not thinking what you are saying lacks value - just a little bit sketchy on accuracy. Also that you are describing the new norm is unlikely.

I once worked for a grammar school (non teaching). 40% of pupils from a private school at primary, an extra class taken on for 13+.

Interestingly most parents (we believe in selective education!) sent siblings who failed the 11+ to a non selective private school.

Hypocrisy, maybe?

State Schools still use gifted & talented over there to describe the most able students. Where I live they use ‘sets’. Lol just because the government stopped funding it doesn’t mean schools don’t stream - they still do.

Lol what about the super rich in state schools who refuse to let their kids socialise with the other kids outside of school & only sponsor or volunteer for their kids’ activities? Shouldn’t they be taxed in someway too?

?

It is sad for their kids, but I am not sure what you are suggesting should be taxed?

This was my experience as well - very diverse racial/ethnic mix, children don't even consider this background to be a factor.

They do very much tend to gravitate to the same socio-economic group and I think it's driven by similar interests, not conscious desire to segregate

Private tutors inc kumon
enrichment activities
books
designer clothing

Just because my motivation for using private school is to help my own children, that doesn't mean that it is "bullshit" that it benefits other children or society.

This use of the phrase "tax break" on the other hand....

When I'm paying a 45% tax rate and then paying private medical and school fees on top, I hardly think it appropriate to say I'm benefiting from some form of state funded tax break.

Give me an example of these 'exclusive clubs' that are being set up that are excluding non-former PS children.

My DS played golf after school on a Friday at primary, pretty sure there wasn't a box to tick on the form. He also did basketball, football and I think Zumba was an option. There was a lunchtime French club.

Are poor children not allowed to play hockey?

Same with the top set being prep school children. In most primaries there will be top set for English and Maths but everything else is mixed. Both sets get equal attention. I still don't understand how this is a detriment to the other children.

That's sad. When my son moved to a state school he joined the pre-existing music/theatre groups but they had no budget for things like costumes and lighting. Because I used to run a kids drama group I was able to help & got the company I work for to sponsor the production but this benefitted all. We also sponsored football kits which didn't benefit my son at all.

I offered to help fundraise for instrumental lessons but they never got back to me so now another child from another local school benefits from free piano lessons.

Then you can also pay VAT on the school fees.

No problem, that's your choice. But don't complain about how hard done by you are, or how the children of the 'poor' are going to suffer.

It's basic economics.

According to your calculations, which are a little, shall we say - biassed?