VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

I read a report recently about one LA authority approaching private schools for places because they had none left in their state schools - I don't know if anyone knows if there's any truth in that report?

Really?

When did learning from history count as “hubris”?

@Araminta1003 god those stats make me feel sick. I had one son at prep and public 50% bursary and I worked hustled sold cashed in whatever to get him over the line this policy would have sent me over I would have ground to a halt. And what of him ? Going from what he knew to the unknown jeez what I wdnt be paying in fees I’d be paying in therapy my thoughts are with everyone facing this punitive ill thought out bullshit

He's hardly going to admit it if the school has been mismanaged and that's the real reason for closure. Much easier to blame a policy that hasn't happened yet.

I'd be happy suggest reasons that the 9 schools in question might have closed. In the case of St Joseph's, obviously the VAT would have been a factor. But a school of 80 with falling rolls and other financial issues was clearly non viable regardless.

Schools don’t have to be mismanaged to no longer be economically viable - just a falling roll will do it. Several independent schools in my area have closed over the last decade or so for just that reason. The English countryside is littered with large houses that were formerly private schools.

OK the pro VAT pro state all the way brigade - surely you agree that state schools will need funding if the census is in October and a ton of kids need to be moved? Where is the funding?!

It may have been brilliantly managed. But a cohort of 80 in a school with a capacity of 110 is sailing close to the wind.

Also we urgently need some clarification on Sixth Form places and what is and what is not going to be legal. Some give their own students priority admissions onto the most popular A level subjects and others do not, some prioritise catchment/state schools, others do not. Where is the consistency going to be. There are not enough places right now or for next year if there is a mass exodus of private school pupils. It won’t be legal to exclude private school applicants. What is the actual law? Urgent clarification needed! And here we are talking about the generation of Covid and cost of living kids, what a bloody mess!!!

There isn't going to be a mass exodus. There really isn't.

https://www.holytrinity.lewisham.sch.uk/News/Ellie-Reeves-at-Holy-Trinity/

Also, church schools will stay as is.

@CurlewKate - you can keep saying the mantra but it won’t stop the Titanic sinking.

I think that will be true to some extent (depending on school/area) but less people will almost certainly go private / more will move to state at the next natural exit point.

I suppose after Covid we should have all realised that us parents are bottom of the list. Matter not whether state or private.

The parent activism via PEF is a good thing. We need a state school equivalent across the country. Like a Union for Parents of children in Education.

I'll add that Catholic schools in the US are much cheaper on average than secular private schools because they are subsidized by the church. The rule of thumb used to be that tuition in Catholic schools was half.

A very sought-after private school I know of has apparently decided to increase it's students from 22 per class to 24 in order to reduce their VAT inclusive increase. A flurry of additional offers were made in August for both Year 7 entry (off the waiting list) and occasional places in older years. The combination of reduced demand for private school places because of VAT and increased supply of places as the most sought-after schools look to mitigate this does not bode well for less sought-after private schools.

I have noticed that you are generally long on conviction, and short on data.

You don’t ‘do’ detail.

I suspect you lack meaningful real-world experience. No offence.

@EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime"I suspect you lack meaningful real-world experience. No offence"

I just have real world experience that doesn't back up your particular world view.

Please could you give a flavour of your real world experience?

I mean it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the state school admissions system is inconsistent, unfair and in desperate need of reform.

A slightly more privileged cohort being exposed to that system doesn't alter fundamentals I'm afraid.

With regards to St Joseph's.

Back in the day it was the feeder prep to St Joseph's College but they became a state grammar school with a list of catholic state feeder primaries (you can't have a private school as a feeder school). It might be the only private school in Stoke-on-Trent but just across the border is NULS & Edenhurst. Nuls is large and successful & they opened a pre-prep (my dd was in the first cohort) and although St Joseph's was seen as the more nurturing etc it started to become less & less popular.

Back in the mid 2000s when my kids started school the fees were manageable on an income of approx £60-70k per year.

It's a shock that it has closed, but not that much of a shock. Nuls seems to be growing and if you attend their prep you can pretty much guarantee entry into their senior school.

When my children were at Nuls another local school, St Dominics closed suddenly. Nuls held special entrance examinations for those children, I'm sure they will be happy to take the St Joseph's kids.

@JassyRadlett - so the policy won’t make money and won’t lead to greater equality, as middle class parents take the best state places (even more so than now) and the most elite private schools, become even more elite.

So what is the point? Just to make a statement? A bit like letting the train drivers steal from poorer pensioners so we can all get back to work on the train again. It has to somehow make common sense, at the very least.

Or is it just pure protectionism - protect middle class parents from too expensive private schools? Basically, Starmer’s & Reeves’ mates need protecting? Because good state schools are actually very good?

How is any of this any different thinking than what we got from 14 years of Tories.

I really just do not understand the thinking behind any of this.

I've just realised that I know the current head of St Joseph's. He's the dad of one of my son's friends. Lovely man and teacher.

Private schooling did not work out for my son for various reasons but I am sad for these parents and children and the staff. However private schooling does put kids in a privilege bubble. I just with the local schools were better.

Are you there pet?