VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

Explain please - why does it help state educated children?

The economics please.

Cutting my MN time won't miraculously add 20% to my income, but thank you anyway :)

You may disagree if you want to be deluded but there's a post upthread quoting just a number of hateful comments. You can pretend they do not exist but your denial won't change the reality.

Labour is funnelling this frustration just as Tory did before, and it doesn't matter they chose different subgroups, the principle is the same.

In fact, many PP said they wanted faith schools abolished as they are also "unfair". I find it deeply disturbing as it's clearly discrimination based on religion and people seem to be OK with that.

Money isn't the only reason to do something.

Raising money is surely the only reason for taxes.

@Ubertomusic "In fact, many PP said they wanted faith schools abolished as they are also "unfair". I find it deeply disturbing as it's clearly discrimination based on religion and people seem to be OK with that."

Well, it obviously isn't religious discrimination, is it? The problem with faith schools is that people of faith have access to a 3rd more tax payer funded schools than people without faith. That is clearly unfair. Sometimes children have to travel past a school paid for by their parents' taxes on their way to one that's further away because the family doesn't follow the right religion.

I mean... You're scoffing at me, but the point i was responding to was something you said:

Didn't work when the govt funnelled the hatred towards the Polish, nor towards "benefit scroungers", nor any other singled out group

I'm not responsible for what other people say.

I didn't say it would help state educated children. The bit i disagree with was that it's a purely populist move that appeases people indulging in class hatred.

There are more reasons to think it's a good idea than just class hatred.

@Ubertomusic "You may disagree if you want to be deluded but there's a post upthread quoting just a number of hateful comments. You can pretend they do not exist but your denial won't change the reality."

I don't pretend they don't exist. I don't use the word "hateful" because I think they are simply distasteful and irritating. I have a much higher bar for hate. Just as I won't use the word "hate" to describe the equally distasteful and irritating and probably more frequent comments directed at those of us who are not supporters of private schools and/or who are supporters of the VAT policy. I think both "sides" should just ignore the ignorant. It's the best way.

😂😂😂😂😂

I think it would be prudent if every state parent using swim school run in private schools starts budgeting at least an extra 20 per cent on their swimming lessons.

When my eldest started, they were £7, they are now £15 for 30 minutes. Won’t be surprised if they are £18 come January. The swim school leaders is already warning parents orally. Same for our netball lessons.

@CurlewKate - our church state primary already self funds 10 per cent. The land belongs to the church and they are founding some of it, so it is not all on the tax payer. It is already in the equation.

I mean where I live private schools have a full monopoly on swimming pools rented out to swim schools. They will either all close if the public kicks up a stink for to much pass through or the public will just have to pay an extra 20 per cent. A lot of the best holiday clubs are also run in private schools. Except the full 20 per cent everyone using any of these types of facilities.
When that happens and no extra teachers etc, I do wonder what the general public may feel about this policy?

I’m laughing too because it’s proved a hugely popular thread, evidently!

InformEducateEntertain
This is a rarely discussed topic on Mumsnet. Thank you for raising the issue OP.

You do know what the Adam Smith Institute is don’t you.

We’ve been over this.

Do keep up at the back.

@Araminta1003 " our church state primary already self funds 10 per cent. The land belongs to the church and they are founding some of it, so it is not all on the tax payer. It is already in the equation."
What equation?

My point that it is unfair that people of faith have access to a third more tax payer funded schools than people without faith. This is not mitigated by the Church contributing 10%!

@CurlewKate “My point that it is unfair that people of faith have access to a third more tax payer funded schools than people without faith. This is not mitigated by the Church contributing 10%!”

If you want church schools to change then you will have to purchase the lands, fully fund them to 100 per cent and deal with the fall out. In particular, churches are safe places for many elderly people, dementia cafes, the lot. Both churches and private schools often are massive community hubs or all sorts, but that seems to have bypassed the Labour Party entirely.
I guess it would be another huge stab at kids and pensioners, they have form for it. Why not?

Not objecting to churches doing church stuff. They do good work. That does not give them the right to gatekeep 30% of state schools.

And "private schools are a community hub"
Is a bit of a stretch!

Clearly "benefit scroungers" is not race? I've given you just a couple of examples as an illustration. I could continue on and on and one but do I really need to explain the obvious??

And "private schools are a community hub"

Where I live in London they are. Youth orchestras, swimming lessons, art lessons, holiday clubs, rugby clubs, football club, cricket clubs, adult choirs etc etc, netball club every weekend including for adults, and obviously the big one, swimming.
Perhaps go check how many places have closed during the Tories and what will be left over once Labour have finished off private schools.

@Araminta1003 one of the ways that private schools could absorb the tax rather than pass it onto parents is by doing more of this kind of stuff.

They don't run all run swimming lessons and holiday clubs, often they hire their own facilities to third parties. They charge VAT on this. The swimming lessons are already subject to VAT.

Private schools have fabulous facilities that they often rent out as a token gesture to keep their charitable status, but it's also a valuable revenue stream.

So I predict more swimming lessons and holiday clubs, not less.

Our local prep has a 9-hole golf course—they could make a packet letting people in at the weekends and holidays. Likewise, with tennis courts, etc.

Same with all those private schools with fully rigged theatres and performance spaces.

Just needs a bit of business acumen and entrepreneurial spirit.

@Araminta1003 "Where I live in London they are. Youth orchestras, swimming lessons, art lessons, holiday clubs, rugby clubs, football club, cricket clubs, adult choirs etc etc, netball club every weekend including for adults, and obviously the big one, swimming.
Perhaps go check how many places have closed during the Tories and what will be left over once Labour have finished off private schools."

That's certainly not my experience-but I am not in London. When you say "community hub" do you mean "place that hires out its facilities"?