Scrap school catchments now

[Momentumummy]

If Labour wants to eventually end parents buying privilege through private schools, it needs to go after school catchments. How can it be fair to decide schools by distance to gates when it often depends on ability to pay rent or mortgage which will usually be higher in catchment for good schools?

The only fair system is a lottery one by borough (at least for secondary when kids are old enough to travel alone). You should be allocated a place within your borough but it should be randomized and not based on distance to gates.

If anything I think people should just be given their nearest school and lump it

It depends how you measure success though. A lot of the schools that are graded outstanding or good by ofsted actively manage out Sen pupils. The way Sen funding works this then frees up some of then element 2 funding which they can use to fund other things that will benefit a higher number of pupils and make them look better as a school. On the whole Sen pupils are also likely to be lower achieving than non Sen peers so getting rid of Sen pupils also pushes up a schools results making them look better.

Your posts are becoming more unhinged. Commuting is sometimes a necessary evil but no one would choose it, and you can’t get better at it! There is absolutely no need to force children to start commuting 2 hours a day because they may one day need to do so as an adult.

That would be a ridiculous idea for everyone who doesn't live in a big city with multiple close schools and good public transport. How would it work in areas with schools far apart from each other and inadequate public transport? It would be terrible for parents, especially working parents who won't be able to do pick ups and drop offs at a further away school, and would also be terrible for the environment. Instead of moaning about some wealthier kids getting better state schools put effort into improving your local schools and making sure your kids have the drive and put the effort in to do well at whatever school they go to.

Honestly, the unfailing and creative hypocrisy from privileged people on these threads never fails to astound me every time there's a new one 🤦🏻‍♀️

A journey that takes an hour in a city will take at least double that in rural areas. And that's if you're lucky enough to have a bus that runs at school times.

The vast majority of comprehensives have a large enough catchment that they have pupils from a variety of house prices, including social housing. It would be interesting if someone would produce a list of all the state comp schools you need to be rich to get into. If it's a long list then it would be worth doing something about it, but most of the highly sought after schools have a fair number of kids on free school meals which can be checked on the dfe site. Obviously I'd be happy to be proven wrong if someone comes up with a long list of schools that only accept from expensive owned or rented houses.

If the argument is “a bright kid will do well in any school” when against selective schools, then why do you care about catchment area. Just go to any school.

@Overthebow ""That would be a ridiculous idea for everyone who doesn't live in a big city with multiple close schools and good public transport. How would it work in areas with schools far apart from each other and inadequate public transport"

I live in a rural area. Children in our area often have at least 30 minute journeys-often longer-to school. The school closest to my house specifically is a 20 minute drive on a good day. Some children go to the furthest away-which is a 5 minute drive, a 15 minute train journey and a 15 minute walk.

It's interesting that nobody has a problem with commuting to private schools and grammar schools. It suddenly becomes an issue when making admissions to state schools more equitable is being discussed!

@CreateUserNames

"If the argument is “a bright kid will do well in any school” when against selective schools, then why do you care about catchment area. Just go to any school."

Are we only talking about bright kids, then?

OP probably thinks it's good for companies like Shein go use child labour - gets them ready for the future 😤

No, but the hypocrisy!

And while I do agree that bright kids do well anywhere, it would be foolish to deny that it's easier and more fun if you have a similar cohort-regardless of academic ability. Which is where fair banding comes in.

@CreateUserNames "No, but the hypocrisy"

Sorry?

Why not just focus on making sure all schools are able to deliver a solid education and then there wouldn't be a need to buy expensive houses etc to get into the few good schools?

Keep it simple

Silly idea. Will never happen.

I've not read the full thread. But from the first couple of pages...
I think OP is assuming that schools in MC areas are better. And it would benefit WC kids to attend (currently) MC schools.

In my experience (of sending my kids to them) schools in predominately WC areas go one of two ways..

Either the teachers and leadership give in into fatalism, decide the kids are doomed anyway and blame the families for poor performance.

Or, The school attracts really dedicated staff that go over and above, invest in SEN and nurture. And really do their best for each individual child.

If you have a kid in the second type of school, they will receive as good an education as they could get anywhere imho.

And not only that, but the school will adapt itself to the specific needs of the community that it's in.

I personally would not move my kid from his very WC school for the sake of bussing him across town and having him learn alongside MC kids. (Despite what MC parents think- your children are not magic and won't raise my kids attainment through their mere proximity.)

I watch the MC parents jockeying for position around the 2 or 3 schools they've heard of from each other and I think that they're wasting their time in a way that has nothing to do with me.

@Momentumummy
Using a lottery system by borough or local authority would increase the numbers of parents driving their children to school.
It would not work in rural areas due to lack of suitable public transport. Financial hardship for many families would increase.
Even in towns and cities travelling can be difficult and expensive.

Well, because grammar and private is a choice. So nobody gives a monkeys how parents get their kids to school. But suggesting we have a system where you could get a school anywhere within a 20 mile radius and then sort out all sorts of complicated travel arrangements funded by the state is madness. Surely just putting that extra funding into failing schools would be better?

Plus

All parents to model the following:-

Treat schools and teachers with respect.
Prioritise and enforce school attendance and not treat as optional.

Very simple things but very effective in changing the ethos and culture of learning.

Also, we'd only need to do something about it in the areas where this was an issue. There's already fair banding in some areas anyway. No need to do it to the whole country, just in areas where it was proven that only people in expensive houses were able to access a good education. Stupid idea to "Scrap school catchments now" everywhere, without finding out where exactly this is a problem.

Where I grew up there was a primary school opposite my home, a primary school I attended. The next nearest secondary school was three miles away, the other two about four miles away.

How exactly would you get a 4-11 year old to a school three miles away? How would you fund getting a 4-11 year old to a school three miles away?

A big selling point of our house is that it's a 5 min walk from the nearest primary school.

My partner and I both had a car journey (or a long walk for me) at primary because we attended faith schools. Neither of us liked the journey and neither had school friends in walking distance.

We both wanted our son to be able to walk to school and feel part of the local community.

School traffic is already horrendous- surely we should be trying to discourage people driving their kids to school. How would this work for working parents?

I wouldn't send my DC to a far away private school where they have to commute, I do have a problem with it I think it's not fair on the child to travel so far so school. I'd much rather send them to a close state school where they can walk with their friends.