A level choices - help please! (Especially re Music)

[Jane054848]

Hi all,

Would really appreciate some help on how best to advise DD! Thank you in advance.

She really wants to do A level music, but hasn't done it at GCSE due to running out of subject options (could only do 1 arty subject and chose art).

The head of music had previously said she could do music at A level if she wanted to. (Not much analysis went into that though - e.g. they didn't hear her play). But when she went to enrolment the school 6th form said no, she can't take it, as it would be too difficult.

However, I'm not sure whether this is really the case or if they want to push her into the STEM subjects she did best in at GCSE (she got 9 in all the sciences, maths, and further maths plus a couple of others - the grades were a big surprise!). It's a small, new STEM 6th form and so if she got 3 high grades in STEM subjects that would be significant for their statistics. However, she doesn't like any of those subjects and isn't considering them for A level.

Does anyone have experience of music A level, either as a parent or teacher, and particularly without GCSE? She is self-taught on an instrument to about Grade 7 (no exams but plays pieces from the Grade 7 exam book) and has been studying Theory for the first time over the summer (got to Grade 4 level so far). She doesn't have experience in composition but has written a few pieces.

From a pure grades perspective, I expect she would do better in Maths and Sciences but we are obviously not going to try to force her to do subjects she doesn't like. If she can't do music she'll probably do Art which she got a 6 in at GCSE so not likely to be a fantastic grade at A level - I hear it is much much harder.

Thank you so much!

What other subjects does she want to do to go alongside the music or art?

At my school you definitely can’t do A-level music without having done it at GCSE or without having achieved at least a grade 5 in an instrument (and the exams to prove it)

It’s a shame the head of music gave her false hope that she could take it. It sounds like she’s done amazingly in her STEM subjects so maybe reconsider.

I don't think the school are unreasonable in their approach. There is no evidence that has the knowledge or the skills to start the course and then to keep up with the other pupils.
Has she had any formal music lessons? How many instruments does she play? The only thing I'm thinking is if her music teachers could vouch for her in some way but I'm not sure that that will be possible as you refer to her being self taught.

No idea on music. But art with a 6 for someone who got several 9s honestly seems nuts - it’s super hard work and demanding…. I mean, following your passions is one thing but this feels like it will end in tears.

What about some subjects that could use the maths but aren’t trad science - economics?

Thanks all. Yes, economics is a possible. I would massively push her to that rather than Art - she didn't even enjoy Art GCSE.

Her other choices are computer science and Spanish (she got 8s in these so should be fairly solid).

I'd love it if she would do the ones she got 9s in but she really dislikes all of them! So no chance of that, I don't think.

Being able to play pieces from a grade 7 book doesn't mean she'd pass a grade 7 exam.
Does she know all the scales?
How would she fare in the aural part of the exam?
Does she play the pieces with the right interpretation? How is her fingering?
Can she discuss the piece with the examiner?
Can she sight read?

It sounds like music is a strong interest for your DD, but being self-taught so far, she will probably struggle with the A level content and end up with a poor grade. Why not get her some proper tuition on her instrument, which would allow her to progress and develop her interest, alongside A levels in other subjects that will be less challenging for her. That way, music can continue to be a lovely hobby, rather than becoming a grind. It would be awful if she lost interest because the A level turned out to be a disappointment.

Do they have a good teacher? How many others want to do it? Maybe they don't have the resources?

Ah I've just seen she doesn't have any music exams. That would mean a definite no at dds school.

Self-taught to grade 7 sounds like a natural talent unless it's one of the easier instruments, but what does she need A Level for?

Maybe try asking on the music thread? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/extra_curricular_activities/5036199-spring-summer-24-music-thread

I'd personally push for STEM even for musically talented DC 😄

Oh please not art with a 6!

Maths?

If your DD had Grade 5 theory, it might be possible. Otherwise no.

Thanks knickerlessparson, really helpful response. (I am not musical so don't even know the questions to think about).

Having not had formal training, I doubt if she could do any of the things you mention at this point. So really just a question of whether it's feasible to catch up and get to a good standard fairly early in the course in order to not be left behind the other kids. Would you have any knowledge/experience of this?

She does have the option of 6th form college and they have said she definitely can do music. But realistically they probably care less about 1 individual grade as it's enormous so it's not necessarily an indicator that they believe she could do well.

Second this, even as a parent of a specialist musician.

Has she any idea what she wants to do beyond A-levels? Maybe look at the university courses she may be interested in and work back from there to find that 3rd A-level. Research where Computer Science and Spanish plus one other such as economics would get her.

What about Psychology ? Being strong in Maths / Science will be an advantage but she might find it more interesting and enjoyable.

If she didn’t enjoy GCSE Art then why is happy to consider it for A-level ? And yet not apply that logic to the other subjects she didn’t enjoy ?

FWIW I didn’t particularly enjoy maths throughout secondary school (having a crap teacher non maths specialist didn’t help) but as it was my best subject I did it at A-level and suddenly I enjoyed it. She may find she enjoys subjects more when she can study them at a higher level.

I am good at music. I have G8 practical and G5 theory, and I found A Level music absolutely rock solid. I got a B (back in the day) purely because I got almost full marks on performance and composition. The written papers are awful. There is so much work, composition and scoring is incredibly time consuming.

I adore music, but I would say that unless you want an actual career in music that requires the theory side as opposed to just performance, don't do it.

A Level music ruined my love for the subject for several years afterwards.

I also agree with @Couchpotato3 - speaking as somebody with a dd studying academic Music at uni. The technical side of it can be HARD! If her chief interest is performance, let her concentrate on that. If she makes it to grade 8 with a good pass in G5 theory meanwhile, unis will often accept that in lieu of A-Level Music anyway.

(If she became so proficient she was considering Music at uni, which she probably wouldn't, I guess.)

Is she trying to pick a subject which looks 'fun' and maybe easy?

No A levels are fun or easy - best pick one that gives the best options for a uni course. Or the BTEC in music tech is good.

Re all the other messages - these are all excellent points. Might be too big a jump. I have said I want her to do at least one grade exam anyway for the UCAS points so she can certainly pursue it as an outside interest.

I'd love to push her towards the STEM subjects as she did so well but I really don't think I can - it would be awful to be stuck doing subjects you hated for the whole of A level.

It's interesting that other schools say no to music if you don't have the formal study to back it up. I guess I was slightly misled about the normal approach due to the head of 6th form, and the 6th form college, saying she just needed to be the right standard of musical ability.

Parent of a child who did music at university.

Playing pieces at grade 7 standard is good but if she is self taught she may well have issues with technique etc. I presume she also hasn't done scales, sight reading and aural to that level.

My son didn't do either gcse music or a level music (although my DD did gcse) and they accepted him onto a music degree.

This was because he had multiple grade 8s in percussive and brass instruments and also grade 8 theory. He'd been playing in groups since he was 4 (first instrument was trumpet) and played continuously with the same band for 14 years.

If she had actual grades in both practical and theory then it might be reasonable but it's almost certainly going to be too much of a stretch.

I don't think this is that unreasonable - I think the typical requirements are either GCSE or grade 5 performance and theory. She has taught herself theory to grade 4 so far, has written some music and is playing grade 7 pieces. Surely the questions about scales, aural and sight reading skills are irrelevant since afaik they are not assessed at A level.

What exactly are their reasons for saying no? If they know her musical aptitude well and have heard her play, have considered it carefully and think it would be too difficult, fair enough.

OP I would get her to have a look at the spec and some past papers to see if she really would enjoy it, I think music A level is more accessible than it was in my day when we had to harmonise Bach chorale melodies and transcribe dictation and whatnot. And maybe show the teacher a video of her playing.

Ultimately though, if they want to say no there's not much you can do about it.

Grade 5 Theory is not that difficult to achieve, very young children do it and OP's daughter is probably gifted in maths if she has 9 for FM so theory will be easy. 4 days online intensive would be enough.

Performance is a much more nuanced thing.

How much performance has she done in groups?
Has she written her compositions down in standard musical notation for multiple instruments?
Can she read music (both clefs) well and follow a score to analyse it?
Does she listen to a wide variety of music from all genres, including classical?
Which options from within the A level syllabus does the school / college teach, and do these match her musical interests?

You can go on to study music performance at conservatoire or similar with no Music A level, but choosing to do Music A level and getting a low grade will close many non-music doors.

Ds is a musician with Music A level and a very good music performance degree from a world-standard provider. But he got a lower mark in his Music than in other A levels because his music analysis paper (history, analysis, listening etc) was not good enough.

I agree with those saying she could pursue it outside of school with a teacher and even theory lessons and grades?

My DD started A level music - she had Grade 6 instrument and grade 5 theory, and had done GCSE (the old one). She got a B at GCSE - her massive strength was the written exam where she barely dropped a mark; her playing and sight reading were OK but she was hugely let down by her composition which was poor.

When she realised how much of that there was in the A level she switched to another subject.

I think if your DD has done no composition not theory it would be a massive ask to do A level. The school saying A level is OK without GCSE to me is more about - if you have done grades and theory then it's OK, and I have deffo come across that; but as your DD has neither then I think it's too much.

Spanish with an 8 is great, CS is good too. How about maths - that's a great partner with CS? In fact many CS degrees (if that might be of interest) as for maths A level rather than CS. Same for economics actually.

Edited to add: meant to say noooooo don;t do art with a 6 and not liking it. Why would you? Better to do biology with a 9 and not liking it surely?

Music A level spec:

filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/music/specifications/AQA-7272-SP-2016.PDF filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/music/specifications/AQA-7272-SP-2016.PDF]]]]

Find the right board for the relevant school, though.