A level choices - help please! (Especially re Music)

[Jane054848]

Hi all,

Would really appreciate some help on how best to advise DD! Thank you in advance.

She really wants to do A level music, but hasn't done it at GCSE due to running out of subject options (could only do 1 arty subject and chose art).

The head of music had previously said she could do music at A level if she wanted to. (Not much analysis went into that though - e.g. they didn't hear her play). But when she went to enrolment the school 6th form said no, she can't take it, as it would be too difficult.

However, I'm not sure whether this is really the case or if they want to push her into the STEM subjects she did best in at GCSE (she got 9 in all the sciences, maths, and further maths plus a couple of others - the grades were a big surprise!). It's a small, new STEM 6th form and so if she got 3 high grades in STEM subjects that would be significant for their statistics. However, she doesn't like any of those subjects and isn't considering them for A level.

Does anyone have experience of music A level, either as a parent or teacher, and particularly without GCSE? She is self-taught on an instrument to about Grade 7 (no exams but plays pieces from the Grade 7 exam book) and has been studying Theory for the first time over the summer (got to Grade 4 level so far). She doesn't have experience in composition but has written a few pieces.

From a pure grades perspective, I expect she would do better in Maths and Sciences but we are obviously not going to try to force her to do subjects she doesn't like. If she can't do music she'll probably do Art which she got a 6 in at GCSE so not likely to be a fantastic grade at A level - I hear it is much much harder.

Thank you so much!

Me too. And A level music was just awful. I haven't touched my instrument since, properly. The thought of those lessons gives me anxiety still, and I'm 48!!!

TBH, I'd suggest your DD gets a piano teacher and carries on her enjoyment of music that way. A Grade 8 counts towards UCAS points too.
I think there'd be too much catching up to do music as an A level alongside other students who have done GCSE.
You might find that, with a bit of diligence and a good piano teacher she could catch up and do an AS level privately but using the school as her exam centre, and then going to A level, but it would be hard work

Worth it if DD wants to include her live of music in her career somehow, but otherwise I'd treat it as a serious hobby and get better with a teacher but otherwise treat it as a good sideline.

This is all true. But she doesn't need any of those things for A level music.

If she can play a piece at grade 7 level now she should be fine in terms of the performing element. But she will also have to compose and do a written appraisal paper, both of which I suspect she will find much harder.

I would say that it all depends on her motivation and the alternatives. She will certainly have some catching up to do, but if she motivated to work hard to do that she should be ok. And it definitely sounds like music is a better choice than art!

One of my daughters did A level music, by the way. She did GCSE first and already had one, and possibly two, grade 8s before she started her A level course, so there were no doubts about her ability to do well. She subsequently went on to study it at university.

@ZittiEBuoni: I can't believe any university would accept grade 5 theory instead of A level music. They will accept grade 8 theory, but that is completely different from grade 5.

You're right @Fifthtimelucky , that was what I meant.

You need to be musically literate to do A level music - it’s really not a soft subject and quite a few students are surprised by how difficult it is.
You need a solid understanding of music theory - not able to answer the questions in the grade booklet but really understand what it means.
It’s a massive leap from gcse to a level and I’ve known many students who play well really struggle with the academic side of the course (some of it’s really bloody dull too!).
What instrument does your dd play?

Perhaps consider coming at this from another angle: what might she want to do at university and beyond? Is university even on the agenda? Projecting forward from GCSE's only as far as A-levels has always seemed to me to be very short sighted. I know that's often very difficult to answer but if you don't start looking at the far future and really thinking about it she's not going to miraculously wake up one day knowing what she wants to do. Download some course prospectuses from university and see if the content seems interesting. Have a look at a Natural Sciences course at Cambridge for example - many of these NS courses can be customised to suit your interests but not much use if there's no part of chemistry, biology or physics that she's interested in. It's a starting point though, perhaps, for thinking about where she might to head for in life.

She's an interesting case. How do you think she achieved such good passes in subjects she claims not to have an interest in - is it that she is working hard to please the teachers at school and you? What is is about each of the subjects that she's "apparently" not keen on? If she has some natural interest in music why hasn't she put herself forward for some private tuition? Is her music a passion or simply an interest?

I worked as a private tutor for 12 years teaching A-levels (and various GCSE's) maybe 40% maths/ad.maths/stats, 40% chemistry, 15% biochemistry parts of biology and only 5% physics (my background). The really sad thing for me is that so few students, however able and motivated are actually genuinely interested in the A-level subjects - they'll only work on the contents of the syllabus, their focus is almost entirely on the grade - I certainly wasn't like that at school.

Both my DD's were musical and had lessons outside school - right through to grade 8 and did the ABRSM level 4 diploma in music performance - got that out of the way at the end of her 1st year of A-levels. Both played in NCO and various other school, county and other orchestras but they never seriously considered a degree or a career in music - they knew too many very talented musicians but they both did AS music with no intention of going on to do the full A-level but they both had grade 5 theory before they started A-levels. I don;t remember them finding it either very rewarding or that challenging. They both went on to do medicine which is where they work now.

Do you have people in your family and friends circle that have interesting jobs that she might be inspired to find out more about? Music and a language would not be unusual - aside from art is she interested in English or history? A school friend of mine did French, Art and English and ended up as a curator for museums and galleries in France which is where she has lived and worked for years. Where can you picture her working or is that too difficult?

this. I did A level music mysef many moons ago and it's very hard. I wouldn't have said it would be impossible to do without GCSE but a very tough ask. You say she plays from the grade 7 book but that doesn't mean she is grade 7 standard.
I think the only way a school would agree to doing alevel music without GCSE is if they had previously heard you play (eg at school concerts etc - recitals made up 40% of my A-level and I was practicing for 2 hours a dady - has she even performed in public before?) and knew you were musically (eg from a theory, interpretation pov) literate too.

Regardless of what she wants to do re A-levels a teacher would be the best way forward musically. And if only for UCAS purposes working towrds the right grade exam is a good idea.

that all being said I think it's a real shame the STEM subjects are prioritised ahead of performing arts these days, a total disgrace if you ask me.

There is SOOO much more to A-level Music than being so-so proficient on an instrument.

Lots of good replies already so will try not to repeat what's already been said...

I was doing lots of music outside school so found myself skipping GCSE and just did the A level as a "gimme" to get a good grade without any effort. As I recall performance was just one part (maybe something like 40% of the grade? I don't really remember) but there were others too. E.g. transcribing 4-part chorales with only limited repetitions. Again, my memory's hazy, but I think they were something like 8 bars long and we'd get to listen to it maybe 4 to 6 times? If she's not been working on this specifically then chances are she'll struggle badly.

So I'd ask why she wants to do this A-level. It sounds like she's not been doing enough extra-curricular music to make it a gimme and there are many more avenues to enter the music profession without it than for other profession/A level associations. And if she wants to be a better musician then private lessons would be a must anyway - she won't get better at playing her instrument by taking A-level music.

i think she’d struggle if she doesn’t have a solid musical grounding obtained from lessons / playing in “formal” groups, particularly if she hasn’t got her Grade 5 theory.

It’s also one of the more time-consuming A levels.

I’d get her to get her G5 theory and then take an instrument grade for the UCAS points, but take something else for A level.

It was 20 plus years ago but I did A level music without having done GCSE and I came away with an A grade (pre A stars being a thing). Performance wise I was probably about grade 6 on starting the course but did get my grade 8 before doing the A level exam. I was by no means the best performer in the class, certainly from a technical perspective, but I ended up getting full marks in that element down to my musicality.
I would definitely recommend having grade 5 theory to help with the listening and analysis elements, but sounds like she's not far off getting there.
The aspect I struggled with most was the listening element as I struggled with accurately recognising the pitch in melodies. As a percussionist though, I was really secure on rhythm and I think this helped carry me through.
In essence I wouldn't necessarily dismiss it, especially if she's passionate and motivated as it can be done.

Is she set on staying at her current school? If not, I wonder if the BTech in music performance would be a good fit. She could do this alongside A-levels. Level 3 is equivalent to A-level but more coursework based.

Thanks SO much to everyone who replied. Really just incredibly helpful and thanks for taking the time. A lot to think about. I'm going to ask DD to read through the whole thread.

The school has now said she could potentially shadow it for the first 6 weeks or take it as a 4th A level and then drop either Music, or one of the others, once she and they have a better idea of how it fits. I think this would be the perfect solution if they allow it.

I did Music A-level without GCSE.

I don't think it was particularly harder for me than the other students, who had got the GCSE. I took it as a fourth subject.

It's a challenging A-level though! It's been useful to me in life and work, however.

However, most schools struggle to recruit onto the course so they may well take DD if she can demonstrate genuine interest.

My DC is taking A level music currently without having sat the GCSE. I would say the main thing is to have an interest in/aptitude for western classical music, as most of the analysis and at least one composition must be from this area.

At her college they asked for grade 5 theory and practical in lieu of GCSE, with the head of music commenting that in his view the theory is more important than the practical as this supports both analysis and composition.

She was a bit worried when she started that she might have to catch up with those who did GCSE but it's been fine and she has done really well in all of the assessments so far.

DD (g8 in one instrument and diploma in her other) has just dropped music a level because the analysis paper is soul destroying.

DD had to start with 4 A levels, and dropped Music A level last term to focus on STEM (which is what she wants to do at Uni, but still does a lot of music extra-curricular for fun). She had a "9" at GCSE but probably picked up a lot of performance marks by doing G5 pieces as a G8 player. She'd 'passed' G5 theory when she was 10 so had to go back to refresh a lot of aspects.

What syllabus is the school proposing? They are quite different and some are more flexible than others. Composition represented a hefty chunk of DD's but she did have scope to ask for about a 10% variation in weighting between theory/composition/performance.

What sort of grade is she after?

I did have grade 5 theory and was grade 7 on my two main instruments before starting.

Former music teacher here. She sounds like a bright button! Probably she could manage Music A-level, but it would probably be jolly hard work, might not be much fun and she might be disappointed with her result at the end.
Does her school offer the Extended Project Qualification (EPQ)? Some universities include the EPQ in their offer; if you do well in EPQ, the offer might be lower A-level results. So it could be a better way of continuing her instrument whilst still contributing to whatever she chooses next.
That said, my only experience of EPQ is my own children doing it.
A friend's child did music in her EPQ: she taught her friends an instrument, then they held a concert which was recorded as the EPQ presentation. There's a lot of flexibility in the EPQ; it's hard work, but provides a good learning opportunity.

Actually many places offering traditional music degrees will take you with lower than G8 theory as an alternative to Music A level:
Birmingham G6 theory or G8 performance
Nottingham "may" take G5 theory
Durham G6 theory
York G5 theory and G8 performance
Oxford G7 theory
Southampton G5 theory and G8 performance
Royal Holloway G7 theory or a 6 at GCSE plus G7 performance
King's G6 theory
York G5 theory and G8 performance
Bristol G8 theory or performance
Bangor G5 theory/G7 performance
Manchester G7 theory
Newcastle just G8 performance "considered"

I don't think it's the lack of GCSE that would be a problem in itself, when I did it it was more that the people who didn't have the whole extra curricular music education of playing in youth orchestras etc found A level much harder because they hadn't had that general musical upbringing and the knowledge that others had gained in that way. One girl was a really talented singer but had almost no musical knowledge, and the gap between her ability and what was needed for a high grade was too much.

@Quatrepotatoes That amazes me. Grade 7 theory, fair enough. But grade 5 seems absurdly basic.

When my daughter was looking (she applied to five universities on your list ten years ago) I'm pretty sure grade 8 theory was the only permitted alternative to A level. They also all expected playing to be grade 8 standard.

I can well believe that @Fifthtimelucky I think the cult of STEM, the catastrophic decline in state schools offering music A Level, the lack of money in county councils to support music education and the general COL which means parents don't have the cash means that unis need to be much more flexible.

You're not wrong.

Our area is fortunate to have an excellent music trust but instrument lessons are £200 a term, instrumental rental not much less and music theatre is around £500 a show all in.

It's become a luxury (they fundraise constantly to subsidise the lessons for those who can't afford it).

When I was my DD's age everything was heavily subsidised and as a result the county produced many fantastic musicians from all sorts of backgrounds.

Yes, I'm also puzzled! G5 Theory is certainly very basic.