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Education

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Have your school shared VAT update?

416 replies

nearlylovemyusername · 20/08/2024 11:30

Just heard from ours, total increase will be 15%. This is on the top of annual increase of 4%.
Significant number of kids moving to grammar

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 22/08/2024 13:44

nearlylovemyusername · 21/08/2024 18:39

Decent enough with own police station? how does this work? I need to know more

I admit I've not heard of this, schools with police station and decent enough?

Do they arrest students on the site, no idea what this is referring to and how it works

SabrinaThwaite · 22/08/2024 13:54

EasternStandard · 22/08/2024 13:44

I admit I've not heard of this, schools with police station and decent enough?

Do they arrest students on the site, no idea what this is referring to and how it works

Yes, funnily enough there are police stations located in schools.

No, they don’t arrest pupils in schools.

Yes, decent enough school, DC got straight As throughout school and unconditional offer for one of MN’s favourite universities.

HTH

EasternStandard · 22/08/2024 13:56

SabrinaThwaite · 22/08/2024 13:54

Yes, funnily enough there are police stations located in schools.

No, they don’t arrest pupils in schools.

Yes, decent enough school, DC got straight As throughout school and unconditional offer for one of MN’s favourite universities.

HTH

Not very funny tbh

We used state, ds did well but no police station. Lucky us

Meadowfinch · 22/08/2024 14:01

@strawberrybubblegum Well said.

I cannot provide my DS with an attentive and resident father. I cannot join in all the school activities that make up a varied social life for a child. I cannot take part in the PTA.

But this single mum who spends every waking second working to cover our costs, can pay for private education. It is not only to benefit him. It allows me to work.

When I need to travel for my job, DS stays at school as an occasional boarder. When I get stuck on a closed motorway or behind a broken signal, the school take over at zero notice, give him his tea and hang on to him until I can get there. If necessary they will care for him overnight.

I have no family backup. They are my safety net as well as ds' school.

I use my resources to ensure ds is safe and fed, just the same as any other parent. I am not elitist. I couldn't give a toot about the old boys network. The school is my 'village'. Find me a state school that will do that.

Ubertomusic · 22/08/2024 14:05

SabrinaThwaite · 22/08/2024 13:40

@strawberrybubblegum

Stop being angry about what other people have that you don't, and appreciate what you do.

I’m not sure why you think I’m angry? What an odd notion. I have everything I want or need (lucky me, eh?) and I don’t know why you would think otherwise.

We probably have about £600k more in the bank by not buying into PS. If, as you say, the type of school has minimal effect on DC outcomes then it’s win win as far as I’m concerned (although it does beg the question, why spaff all that money then).

People who have everything they want or need don't usually go to SM to tell other people "you're part of the problem".

They have no need to 😁

AboveBeyond3 · 22/08/2024 14:06

strawberrybubblegum · 22/08/2024 13:42

I'm not at the university stage for DD yet, but I'm inclined to agree. US universities were increasing in popularity, but gun crime, anti-abortion laws, protests, US politics etc are making them a lot less appealing. You do have to consider that your DC may choose to stay and live wherever they study.

I wonder whether European universities are going to become more popular, especially amongst families with multiple nationalities. Language is the main issue, but not insurmountable.

Valid points.

Whosaysyoucanthaveitall · 22/08/2024 14:19

HighRopes · 20/08/2024 14:15

We’ve been told that the school awaits further finer detail on how VAT legislation will be changed, and what the school will be required to levy VAT on, as well as what VAT the school is able to reclaim. They say that until they have this information, they are unable to make firm plans in relation to fees.

We’ve been told the exact same thing. The school has been preparing for the eventuality, but at the minute it’s still unknown

Ubertomusic · 22/08/2024 14:21

strawberrybubblegum · 22/08/2024 13:42

I'm not at the university stage for DD yet, but I'm inclined to agree. US universities were increasing in popularity, but gun crime, anti-abortion laws, protests, US politics etc are making them a lot less appealing. You do have to consider that your DC may choose to stay and live wherever they study.

I wonder whether European universities are going to become more popular, especially amongst families with multiple nationalities. Language is the main issue, but not insurmountable.

German and Dutch unis teach in English. They're basically free for everyone too (200 euro per term
maybe). It didn't occur to them yet to limit access to education by taxing it directly and indirectly. Germany was an industrial powerhouse and could not afford uneducated population. The social stratification is also very different.

Ultimately, any education system is a function of social and political structure of the society. Schools in Britain have never been the "tool" to promote equality and never will be.

Lalalacrosse · 22/08/2024 14:23

I wonder whether European universities are going to become more popular, especially amongst families with multiple nationalities. Language is the main issue, but not insurmountable.

We will be looking at Germany when the time comes. The kids are bilingual so should be fine, even if their teaching is in German.

strawberrybubblegum · 22/08/2024 14:27

SabrinaThwaite · 22/08/2024 13:40

@strawberrybubblegum

Stop being angry about what other people have that you don't, and appreciate what you do.

I’m not sure why you think I’m angry? What an odd notion. I have everything I want or need (lucky me, eh?) and I don’t know why you would think otherwise.

We probably have about £600k more in the bank by not buying into PS. If, as you say, the type of school has minimal effect on DC outcomes then it’s win win as far as I’m concerned (although it does beg the question, why spaff all that money then).

You're certainly being quite aggressive about other people's school choices. That gives the impression that you're angry.

why spaff all that money then

Because families have different resources and different priorities.

My DD would have been no less privileged if she had gone to state school and I worked a bit less (giving her more of my time and energy) and spent a bit more on other family activities. But this is the choice which works for us.

Fwiw, I'm happy with our choice. And I'm glad you are happy with yours too. Neither affects the other.

Ubertomusic · 22/08/2024 14:28

Meadowfinch · 22/08/2024 14:01

@strawberrybubblegum Well said.

I cannot provide my DS with an attentive and resident father. I cannot join in all the school activities that make up a varied social life for a child. I cannot take part in the PTA.

But this single mum who spends every waking second working to cover our costs, can pay for private education. It is not only to benefit him. It allows me to work.

When I need to travel for my job, DS stays at school as an occasional boarder. When I get stuck on a closed motorway or behind a broken signal, the school take over at zero notice, give him his tea and hang on to him until I can get there. If necessary they will care for him overnight.

I have no family backup. They are my safety net as well as ds' school.

I use my resources to ensure ds is safe and fed, just the same as any other parent. I am not elitist. I couldn't give a toot about the old boys network. The school is my 'village'. Find me a state school that will do that.

Edited

Second this, also a single mum.
I cannot even comment on some PP, it's beyond anything that can be commented on in a civilised manner.

twistyizzy · 22/08/2024 14:36

Funnily enough the Michaela has just achieved stellar results. Why don't Labour improve all state schools to that extent rather than go after indy schools? They paint all the ills of state as being caused by indy and therefore indy sector should be punished to pay for very minor and ineffective tweaks of state education.
If they put as much energy into raising standards of state to that of Michaela then maybe more people wouldn't feel the need to use indy schools.

Ubertomusic · 22/08/2024 14:38

twistyizzy · 22/08/2024 14:36

Funnily enough the Michaela has just achieved stellar results. Why don't Labour improve all state schools to that extent rather than go after indy schools? They paint all the ills of state as being caused by indy and therefore indy sector should be punished to pay for very minor and ineffective tweaks of state education.
If they put as much energy into raising standards of state to that of Michaela then maybe more people wouldn't feel the need to use indy schools.

Oh but Labour hates Michaela! 😁

AboveBeyond3 · 22/08/2024 14:40

In a new development, I have just been told that our DC’s school has withdrawn fee subsidies for teachers children…

I cannot imagine that will do much for staff recruitment and retention…

AboveBeyond3 · 22/08/2024 14:41

strawberrybubblegum · 22/08/2024 14:27

You're certainly being quite aggressive about other people's school choices. That gives the impression that you're angry.

why spaff all that money then

Because families have different resources and different priorities.

My DD would have been no less privileged if she had gone to state school and I worked a bit less (giving her more of my time and energy) and spent a bit more on other family activities. But this is the choice which works for us.

Fwiw, I'm happy with our choice. And I'm glad you are happy with yours too. Neither affects the other.

’The why spaff all that money away’ tells
you all you need to know about the posters intentions, despite their protestations to the contrary…

EasternStandard · 22/08/2024 14:44

AboveBeyond3 · 22/08/2024 14:41

’The why spaff all that money away’ tells
you all you need to know about the posters intentions, despite their protestations to the contrary…

Tbh if PS is a big waste of money as they claim all the more reason to let people pay as they are without VAT and keep the burden on the state lower

If there is no advantage then fine

Cyclingmummy1 · 22/08/2024 14:52

AboveBeyond3 · 22/08/2024 14:40

In a new development, I have just been told that our DC’s school has withdrawn fee subsidies for teachers children…

I cannot imagine that will do much for staff recruitment and retention…

That would be the final nail in the coffin. Though I suspect that once the very senior management's children are through, it will be withdrawn.

twistyizzy · 22/08/2024 14:53

Ubertomusic · 22/08/2024 14:38

Oh but Labour hates Michaela! 😁

Yep the irony

PocketSand · 22/08/2024 15:33

@NorSom I do understand where you are coming from but firmly believe that SEN support in local schools will only improve when those that can afford it stop sending their DC to indi and state schools/LAs are forced to deal with the problem on a universal level.

Like you say the majority of DC in indi don't have an EHCP, all parents want their child to thrive and avoid trauma. I can understand that they could afford not to detail years of failure but this should not be a choice of affordability. No child should have to suffer years of failure before support is given.

The majority that have an EHCP are deemed able to cope with mainstream and indi mainstream is not named in Section I. Maybe support will work, maybe it will fail. Again it takes to long to recognise 'failure' and ignores well-being.

Special schools are different. The Indi is named. In fact I am not aware of any special school that does not require an EHCP naming placement so profoundly affected will not be subject to VAT. Given the astronomical fees VAT is not an issue.

Most tribunals for refusal to assess are mainstream with limited funding and then you are stuck with what the school provides with constant claims that the child is fine. Indi is not named and so not VAT exempt.

Yes I went to tribunal for DS1 once he had an EHCP to challenge provision and placement and he got a place in indi specialist. But it was too late. Placement broke down after 5 terms. After involving SOS!SEN he had a bespoke package delivered at home with specialist tutors, SALT, OT and CAMHS. He is now an adult with severe anxiety and I have been a full time carer (with the exception of specialist school) for about 15 years. I know how shit it is. I often wonder if early intervention could have averted this. We moved him from indi to state in year 2 because indi couldn't meet need and was affecting self esteem but state was no better.

I opted for bespoke package of home Ed and internet school for DS2 (he had an EHCP). No trauma. Did well in GCSEs, went to brick 6th form, achieved Astar in maths, A in further maths and A in physics and is going to uni next month to study masters in mechanical engineering.

Are DS1 and DS2 so different because of different provision or because of different profile - I don't know but I wish DS1's experience had been different and he didn't face a life on PIP and ESA with me as carer for life.

For a child with complex needs indi is not the cure all. It may be sufficient for some specific DC with low need, who are academically able with no behavioural issues that affect the learning of others.

I understand on a personal level you want your child to be one that survives and thrives. But VAT is not the hill to die on or to sacrifice your child on if indi is working for them.

As a society though we need to focus on those with high need who are not academically able whose behaviour does impact on others and who are left in state with poor provision as they are more likely to be traumatised and cost the state long term in disability benefits.

nearlylovemyusername · 22/08/2024 15:37

Ubertomusic · 22/08/2024 14:38

Oh but Labour hates Michaela! 😁

I didn't know about it.

Makes sense I guess - to have "working people who rely on services and can't write up a cheque when they fall in trouble" you need to keep education at a very moderate level, not the top one which produces high flyers.

At least Labour are consistent in their approach - kill PS, kill grammars and selective education, then magic up 6500 teachers (0.3 per school) and that's it.

OP posts:
nearlylovemyusername · 22/08/2024 15:49

@SabrinaThwaite

Thank you for coming back and congratulations to your DC, you must be very proud

Still about police - I've never heard about it. Is this because of level of violence at school? what exactly police are doing there?

OP posts:
GreenTeaLikesMe · 22/08/2024 16:50

strawberrybubblegum · 22/08/2024 13:42

I'm not at the university stage for DD yet, but I'm inclined to agree. US universities were increasing in popularity, but gun crime, anti-abortion laws, protests, US politics etc are making them a lot less appealing. You do have to consider that your DC may choose to stay and live wherever they study.

I wonder whether European universities are going to become more popular, especially amongst families with multiple nationalities. Language is the main issue, but not insurmountable.

These days , degrees are offered in English in many countries. Def considering this for my kids.

ZanyFox · 22/08/2024 17:03

GreenTeaLikesMe · 22/08/2024 16:50

These days , degrees are offered in English in many countries. Def considering this for my kids.

It's quite miserable though, unless you have ties to the country. Two of mine have done a year abroad and although they got a lot out of it they looked forward to coming back and seeing friends.

twistyizzy · 22/08/2024 17:42

I live in NE England. NE and Midlands have yet again got lowest GCSE grades in England. Those who live in London which, yet again tops the tables, move your DC to the NE and tell me you wouldn't use indy schools to try to improve outcomes for your kids!

twistyizzy · 22/08/2024 17:44

CurlewKate · 22/08/2024 09:15

I'm sorry, @nearlylovemyusername. I would love to leave your thread exclusively for sharing practical information about private school VAT issues. But while there is so much misinformation being posted, I can't.

@ZanyFox of course there are bad state schools. But threads from teachers saying they are having a shit time does not suggest that their schools are awful for the kids. They are often having a shit time because they are busting a gut to protect the kids and themselves from years of budget cuts and neglect. Yes, some schools are bad. So are some teachers. But most aren't. Most state schools can't provide the extra curriculars private schools can. Because private school parents pay for them as part of the fees. State school parents pay for them too-just not as part of the school day.

And it never ceases to amaze me that so many private school parents live in the catchments of the worst state schools. Considering that said worst schools are almost invariably in areas of significant social deprivation and disadvantage. Which is not the natural habitat of people who are in a position to send their children to private school.

I live in NE England. NE and Midlands have yet again got lowest GCSE grades in England. Those who live in London which, yet again tops the tables, move your DC to the NE and tell me you wouldn't use indy schools to try to improve outcomes for your kids!