Have your school shared VAT update?

[nearlylovemyusername]

Just heard from ours, total increase will be 15%. This is on the top of annual increase of 4%.
Significant number of kids moving to grammar

Our local (inadequate, as it happens) comp has a second set of free school buses that leave after all the extracurricular clubs have finished, precisely to do this. It’s not a new idea.

State schools vary a lot but I agree with you on recent threads there are adults who are mentally impacted by the environment they work in. Dc are likely impacted too, they are not removed from whatever is causing the mh issues

So when you say significant number you mean those going into year 7, who last summer foresaw Labour getting in and Introducing vat, sat the exam and passed the exam.Just how many can that be OP?

This was known and likely last summer not sure why all the emojis

Many PS pupils sit grammar exams just as a taster for super selective PS exams later on. They had no intention to take up places, now they will.

Plus those who didn't plan to sit for grammar but have now registered. I know quite a few families who did that.

I guess I'm a bit surprised that a large number of people are willing to pay a term of private school fees but not the VAT.
Anyway, this is fair enough. They have the grammar place, other kids have other arrangements now and may not want to move to the grammar at short notice in September, when the private school kids holding grammar places don't show up.

I'm not a private school parent but two friends are and they have not yet heard what their schools are doing. They are both Y11 so will suck it up and probably move at Sixth Form. Neither are academic, although both great at many things, but they will not be taking places at Grammar or selective Sixth Forms in this area.

Why is it surprising? Term's fees let's say 6k, VAT is 4.8k x 8 years so 38.4k, plus annual increases.

Surely it's obvious if you're "squeezed middle"?

I repeat- how many? Given only 6% are at private school in total anyway, amd your scenario will only apply to a small percentage,the state se tor will not even feel te difference.It certainly won't be significant!

Depends on the area. In London and Kent grammar and PS take from roughly the same pool.

I personally know many families who were not keen on grammar but will now sit for them. Significant or not - I have no idea. I guess if you miss a place due to increased demand, that will be significant for you - but no one else will notice.

Though of course I don't know every single area of the country like you do.

I used to think the squeezed middle were people with less disposable income than that, given that only 7/6% of kids are at private school. There are a whole load of people who might not have 6K spare each year, while still doing ok.

I don't get your figures though, why 4.8K and why 8 years?

@mm81736
what are you trying to say? that VAT policy won't have any negative impact on state sector? you are in your rights to see it this way. I agree with you that the impact will vary across regions, but

• those poorer kids who had a chance to go to grammars or best performing secondaries will be pushed out now
• mild SEN PS kids will suffer for sure
• there won't be additional funding raised at all

Most important - it just occurred to me after seeing A-levels and GCSE stats that actually on a paper state sector will improve in a few years time. Look at this carefully:
Guide to AS and A level results for England, summer 2024 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

At present there are 20% of six formers in indies, all selective.

If some % of them move to state, by nature of these kids being high performance they will push stats up so Labour will claim they improved education and policy is working. In reality these are just the same bright kids well supported by their parents who changed sector. This will not have impact on current state cohort, but on a paper this will look oh so much better!

Edited to add - all this agenda about reducing disadvantage gap is not about pulling up disadvantaged but about pushing down those who are perceived to be privileged. Those who had a chance to become higher earner and stronger tax contributor. This will work and Labour will claim it to be success. As a country overall we will become poorer and less competitive.

Yes it's more likely to impact students who are competing for the highly attractive state options

The top state schools are mostly grammar but also there will be some comprehensive made more selective via high house prices

I'd say trying to access the top state then this policy makes it harder

In terms of significance I'd say very little in funding or change overall, maybe negative, but a big difference for some dc who will not get those state or bursary places

Our prep has gone from 12200 to 15700 in 3 years that’s a lot right? I’m hoping they’ll reduce to then add on VAT. Seniors gone from 14k to 18k! Jeez in the same period of time.

Next up, VAT on nursery fees...

So long as there is a VAT free option available too for the majority, as there is with schools, then that could be ok.

Not just rurally. Running kids round to activities doesn't work if you work full-time even in a city.

So either you work full time - giving at least 42% of those extra earnings to the state in tax... Plus pay someone to take your kids to extracurriculars - paying their income which will include their income tax to the state out of the 58% you got to keep...

Or else you reduce your hours. Your own family get the entire benefit of your 2 days non-working time. You might even have the time and energy to set up a sports club for your DC! The state (ie everyone else in the UK) gets less tax and pays for your DC's education on top.

Adding VAT changes the balance of where people will choose one option over the other. I think the UK will be worse off for it. Others seem to think that removing the evil of some kids getting a better education (at their own parent's expense, out of taxed income) than the state is willing/able to fund for everyone is worth the hit - even if the UK then has less money to spend on social spending and welfare.

With this Government, what may seem
fantastic now, may not prove so outlandish later. I don’t think anyone is safe.

You're probably right, British economy is in such a good shape that doctors, accountants etc are now considered "rich people".

Pathetic really.

Actually many posters on MN would definitely class these people as rich. I was on a thread where some were saying anything over 40K was wealthy!

Yes I get it, but Europe for example would be laughing at such miserably low standards. These professions as well as middle (!) management have been MC for ages - income wise, consumption patterns, attitudes etc. I guess the last time they were considered "rich" was in the 19th century, before mass education. It really looks sad now...

Or let's put it another way.

You have resources : time, energy, commitment to your family, being capable and emotionally strong.

You use the resources you have (which not everyone has) in many different ways. Some of those ways will benefit your community (like having a sports club they can make use of). But naturally most of the benefit of your personal resources accrue to your own family. You made the club because it's your DC's personal interest. Your DC benefit from your abities in many ways to have a wonderful childhood. This makes them incredibly privileged and much more likely to have a good life than a child whose parents don't have equivalent resources. If they also went to PS, that would benefit them - but they have enough other privileges that it doesn't matter.

A private school parent (me) also has resources, including a high paying job. There are other resources I don't have, notably time and energy.

I use the resources I have in many different ways. Some of those ways will benefit my community (like the large amount of tax I contribute and the coaching I do). But naturally most of the benefit of my personal resources accrue to my own family - just as yours do. I use my earnings to give my DC the best education I can and my DC benefits from my personal knowledge, commitment and access to activities I provide to have a wonderful childhood. This makes her incredibly privileged - but not any more so than your own DC.

There's really no difference between the privilege I give my DC with my resources and the privileges you give your DC with your resources.

Neither are bad - we're meant to try to help our children become good adults. It's our responsibility as parents. We have different resources, so we do it in different ways.

The privileges you give your DC - a secure home, supportive parents, access to activities which help them grow socially and developmentally - are much, much more significant than which school they go to. All the studies of childhood outcomes show it.

Stop being angry about what other people have that you don't, and appreciate what you do.

British private schools are going to become the playground of the international elite who will then ship their kids off to the US for university.

I agree with the first part - although not all will be elite, some will simply be ex-pat postings on a two or three year rotation.

With respect to US unis, again I half agree - owing to their high cost, but if they continue down the woke path, and experience protests as seen recently, they will become less attractive.

Both points above are from my own personal experience.

@strawberrybubblegum

Stop being angry about what other people have that you don't, and appreciate what you do.

I’m not sure why you think I’m angry? What an odd notion. I have everything I want or need (lucky me, eh?) and I don’t know why you would think otherwise.

We probably have about £600k more in the bank by not buying into PS. If, as you say, the type of school has minimal effect on DC outcomes then it’s win win as far as I’m concerned (although it does beg the question, why spaff all that money then).

I'm not at the university stage for DD yet, but I'm inclined to agree. US universities were increasing in popularity, but gun crime, anti-abortion laws, protests, US politics etc are making them a lot less appealing. You do have to consider that your DC may choose to stay and live wherever they study.

I wonder whether European universities are going to become more popular, especially amongst families with multiple nationalities. Language is the main issue, but not insurmountable.