Have your school shared VAT update?

[nearlylovemyusername]

Just heard from ours, total increase will be 15%. This is on the top of annual increase of 4%.
Significant number of kids moving to grammar

I live in NE England. NE and Midlands have yet again got lowest GCSE grades in England. Those who live in London which, yet again tops the tables, move your DC to the NE and tell me you wouldn't use indy schools to try to improve outcomes for your kids!

I'm so sorry to hear that.

DD's school offer reduced fees for all staff, and I think it's a fantastic way not only to retain great staff (for the whole duration of their DC's education - which is significant) but also to build a sense of school community. I'm not school staff - just a normal full-fees parent - but I would be really gutted if that was withdrawn.

Did they feel like outsiders a little bit? How fluent were they in the language, and if you don't mind sharing, which countries did they go to? I think it does depend on the child whether it would be comfortable for them or not. And also on the country.

You really can't compare sending your kids to Germany for uni vs the US. The US is huge and those in the northern states don't have an issue with access to abortion (although I really can't see this being the deciding factor in uni). Gun violence varies wildly and most kids will never see a gun except on a police officer. They offer a completely different experience with smaller classes and a real focus on teaching with a hugely broad curriculum if they choose liberal arts. The extra curricular opportunities are amazing as is the social life.

Thanks - I agree with you.

It’s very short-sighted, and they may regret it in the longer-term.

If ppl struggle to pay VAT, how on earth would they be able to afford the US uni fees? Very few people are national level athletes.

@Ubertomusic I think you've misunderstood what I've said. By placing VAT on PE the only people left using it will be the international elite. The UK is already shipping out their brightest and wealthiest young people at an alarming rate. This will only increase it.

Sorry still don't get it 🤔 The wealthiest ppl will be fine for sure anywhere, the MC won't be able to afford the US unis unless exceptional in certain sports.

International elites - Russians are not so keen these days, hostilities with China are on the horizon in 5-10 years so this hefty income stream will also diminish, only the Arabs will probably stay if we don't support Israel too much (big if). 🤔

In our school it is only the marginals that are considering leaving because of the 15% increase in fees. They are the parents who couldn't really afford it anyway they never took part in the add on enrichment. This will help sort the wheat from the chaff.

@Ubertomusic That's an interesting take on who you consider to be the elite internationals.... Most of the top private schools are opening sister schools in the far east and are actively recruiting students from there.

It's also wildly not true that you have to be a top athlete to get a scholarship to a US university. Hardly anyone pays the sticker price. Academic DC will get full scholarships etc.

My point, really, is that by adding the VAT less Brits will be able to access the best education Britain has to offer which seems a real shame. Some small private's will disappear but really only the very small preps that serve the local community. The top ones will simply add more international students to the mix. Surely it would have been better to raise the standards of the state schools rather than limit the number of Brits who can access the best education.

Do you work in the school or a parent there?

I suppose there will be some who are happy private is becoming more elite

That's the whole point isn't it. Our kids are quite bright they will get top grades whereever, they don't need the small classes. You pay for the seal of approval and name on the CV. Not to mention the contacts and job opportunities in the future.

Did you really mean "elite internationals"?? Gosh, that sounds horribly colonialist 🙉 North Korea has its own elites by definition (ppl who govern the country), but I guess they are not "elite" enough for you...

I merely stated the simple fact well known to everyone that Chinese, Russians and Arabs used to love sending their offspring to British PS and splash their cash here, surely that's no news to anyone? The tide has already turned though, even the Arabs are moving their money elsewhere - just read the news and figures.

Not sure what sister schools have to do with the topic related to schools on British soil 🤔

DC1 sat US SATs as we were considering the US. You are right, you could get scholarships but it's not that easy. Also, I was really shocked by the standards of SATs - DC did no preparation at all and had a minor head injury literally half an hour before the tests, but still got scores in the range good for Harvard. It was obvious US school education was even worse than British. Unis may be different (though I don't understand how, if you have such an intake), I have no first hand experience of unis so can't really comment.

Agree on the point of limiting access to education.

Anyway, sorry for the long off-topic OP. I was just interested in the take on German vs US unis as we considered both at one point and DC actually sat a few tests (I would not consider the US now though).

This sounds like a mumsnet rumour; i'm an Eton parent and there is no news so far from them

Sorry but not sure what you expect me to do for state schools that thousands of other engaged educated and committed state school parents have not been able to accomplish. It isn’t a lack of send parental engagement that makes the whole situation shit for our children - the send parents I know are among the most active in lobbying for improvements in education, and the majority of us are in state already.

access to a suitable education shouldn’t be down to affordability, but it also shouldn’t be a post code lottery. I live on the edge of two LA and if I lived 2 miles east my resources would be 10x what they are. Maybe sort out the inadequacies and inequities in the current system before pushing more children into the mix? Significantly more funding is needed for send, but 1) this policy isn’t going to raise any money and 2) none of it was promised to send anyways.

i have never claimed that indies are the solution for all send children - it depends on the kid and it depends on the school, but I do have a child who is thriving in a very supportive Indy after a very difficult start in state and know there are several families at our school in similar circumstances. I am very angry at Labour for pulling the rug out from under us without any sort of accountability towards affected children’s welfare or for send more broadly.

I don’t intend to die on any hills, but there is a limit to our affordability, even if I am willing to sell our home to keep my kid in an educational setting where they are happy and thriving, There is also the very real worry of declining enrolment since VAT became a likelihood and what that might mean for the long term sustainability of the school. I think the school is in a decent position, but COVID + general inflation/COL and then VAT might be the final nail in the coffin for many schools. As a policy it feels very much like cutting of one’s nose to spite your face.

I don't pay fees as its dc named school on his ehcp. Vat will be added in Jan at the 20% but they are trying to not do a fee increase.

SATs in the US are not used in the way you assume - they are intended as general aptitude tests and typically only account for about 10% of the weighting when considering an application. It is intended to be a test you do no prep for (though people still prep and there is a thriving industry in test prep) but it doesn’t make a massive difference unless you are on the extreme ends. If you are from a very disadvantaged background and smash the SATs it probably has a bigger uplift; if you have otherwise a good portfolio but below average SATs then it might hold you back.

US education has a different focus and orientation than the UK in that it keeps things broad well into uni, as many don’t require you to declare your major before the 2nd year of uni. There is more of an emphasis on coursework, innovative independent work and intersectionality between subjects. A first year from the uk will potentially have covered more content in their subject because they have already had 2 years to specialise, but may not have the broader skill set required to be successful in the US.

Oh fuck off. The wheat from the chaff! I say that as an independent school parent. Who the hell do you think you are?

I know all that, we were thinking about Brown for liberal arts. The rules and weighting were different back then. And yes, we happen to be from a very disadvantaged group so it is possible to get scholarships, but families I know who sent their DC to the US or are prepping now seem to be focussing on sports, not academics. I assume it's an easier bet for a non-disadvantaged DC.

I still don't get it how a disabled person who can hardly write due to their condition can get top scores in Writing and Literature in a foreign language without extra time or any other special provision - even if SATs do not require any prep as you say 🤔 Have they been designed for disabled people?

All Germans I know (yes, they're mostly MC) are far better educated than state or PS pupils here. Even the school basics - maths, languages, history, geography etc.

@NorSom Also, what do you mean by general aptitude tests - SATs are subject-specific, that's not "general"? 🤔

Us universities are looking for a ‘package’ - at the more selective level it isn’t sufficient to have good academics, you also need to offer something else that helps you stand out from a sea of qualified candidates. From the UK sport is probably a good bet in that PS have exceptional sport programmes, and many UK sports are probably underrepresented in the US so easier to stand out - easier to get an acceptance / scholarship for fencing than softball or soccer. In the US applicants will be focused on volunteer work, entrepreneurship, other avenues for displaying your talent and commitment to something unique.

SATs are controversial in the US - several big name unis (including Harvard?) stopped accepting them for a bit before backtracking recently. Going back 20+ years they have never been that important- if you look at any top uni there will be a very wide spread between top admitted scores and lowest admitted score. In a system where there are no national exams and there are massive differences state to state in curriculum it is a useful calibration tool, but no one (including the sat test board) takes it too seriously. Several people in my year achieved perfect scores on one or more elements - they were not necessarily the most capable students, and generally they didn’t go on to Ivy League. Others with more middling scores achieved places in higher ranked unis. SATs are a hurdle to clear, not a marker of achievement.

the US SAT test covers verbal reasoning, math reasoning and writing. It isn’t subject specific, but designed to test general aptitude . The math tested, for example, isn’t particularly advanced in terms of content - in the US the more mathematically able follow a more accelerated curriculum, but none of that would be covered in SATs. The test would be limited to questions where more basic operations could solve, but it would be asked in tricky ways to test understanding. The idea is that a student who is capable in math could still do well even if their school had not offered a more advanced curriculum, as is often the case in more deprived areas.

most people recognise SATs as being seriously flawed but occasionally useful.

@NorSom I've just double checked - we're talking about different things, I meant SAT II that no longer exist and compared them to subject specific tests here. DC1 never had perfect scores for UK subject tests while SAT II scores were 760 or 780, can't remember now, even for subjects DC didn't take for A Levels and struggled with at GCSE due to disability. My conclusion was the US subject knowledge standards were lower.

Anyway, I'm derailing the topic too much. Sorry!

It was meant to provoke.

Dont bite.

They are probably deflecting their own ‘chaff’ characteristics.

In our school it is only the marginals that are considering leaving because of the 15% increase in fees. They are the parents who couldn't really afford it anyway they never took part in the add on enrichment. This will help sort the wheat from the chaff.

🤣 loving this parody