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Education

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How would you reform Secondary education

176 replies

CurlewKate · 14/08/2024 12:37

If you had a free hand? I would get rid of all state selective and faith schools and introduce a new admissions system based on ballots and fair banding. And I would introduce an extensive school transport network. That would be my starting point. I haven't yet worked out the details for children who genuinely can't access mainstream education, but I do think that most can with proper support. Which will, of course, be in place. This needs more thought and input from experts once My Glorious Reign comes into effect.
I would also have rigorous and regular inspections. Free school meals for all. BTecs or some similar system will be given the same weight and value as GCSEs and A Levels.

OP posts:
Leavetheminthebowl · 14/08/2024 19:15

Get rid of all the academies so that it's a level playing field in terms of staff contracts etc.

Create a uniform that is comfortable and cheap to source for parents (no logos) and allow them to wear comfy footwear like trainers.

Get rid of all the stupid rules about hair colours, etc.

Pay LSAs more money so it's a more appealing career choice which means there's more staff available for pupils who need it

Scrap targets on attainment - exams at the end which are no pressure for grades.

Allow lower ability pupils to access easier exams. Pupils who can't grasp simple concepts in English, for example, shouldn't be expected to write three pages about Shakespeare to pass!

Thin out the curriculum so pupils can spend more time on things that will actually benefit them. Not forcing pupils to pick options that they don't actually want to do and have no future use for. I picked geography because there wasn't anything else in the block to choose from - never used it, didn't want to do it, could've done extra science or maths which I was shit at! Or something useful like money management, home economics.

Make sure there is plenty of alternative provision available for children who can't, for whatever reason, access "normal" mainstream education.

There's loads more...

Leavetheminthebowl · 14/08/2024 19:17

Oh, and provide access to pens/pencils etc in the classroom so kids don't get detentions for forgetting a pen!

Let teachers fully design their own lessons based on the needs of their class. You'd be surprised if you're not currently a teacher how little autonomy teachers have over their own lessons in many schools.

Also, get rid of all the "school improvement" consultants who've no idea what the individual kids in your classes actually need and bulldoze through the department in order to "improve" attainment.

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 19:20

Scrap MATs and the CEOs on massive salaries

Starlightstarbright3 · 14/08/2024 19:22

I would talk to a lot of secondary teachers which is the opposite of what governments do because they live it every day and see it from the perspective of all children not just my own in my area.

I would though look at the Sen provision which only get funding after echp which are routinely declined on first application .

Alltheyearround · 14/08/2024 19:31

Starlightstarbright3 · 14/08/2024 19:22

I would talk to a lot of secondary teachers which is the opposite of what governments do because they live it every day and see it from the perspective of all children not just my own in my area.

I would though look at the Sen provision which only get funding after echp which are routinely declined on first application .

Some great ideas here. I'd hire you all if I was in charge of Education.

My tuppence worth is this: make it impossible for LA's to constantly and illegally evade responsibility - as well as central govt role and better accountability through the whole system.

The law is sound but so many loopholes and no consequences for unscrupulous LA's who get out of their duty until you take them in front of a judge.

What a massive waste of everyone's time and money, not to mention children not getting a suitable education. What happens to them in the long term? More cost to society for one, not meeting their potential for another.

For example, DS should have had in school speech therapy for 2 years, only now written into EHCP this summer after a tribunal. They have saved a lot of money on the back of a vulnerable child with multiple SEND (Y10). Morality has gone out of the window.

Hundreds of thousands of cases like this.

Govt needs to have a good think about how to properly fund and police this.

Pythag · 14/08/2024 19:37

Rehab4rightmove · 14/08/2024 15:00

I'd replace the national curriculum with the international baccalaureate curriculum.
Have classes that are split by learning style rather than attainment.

There is no such thing as learning style.

Pythag · 14/08/2024 19:38

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 19:20

Scrap MATs and the CEOs on massive salaries

But some teachers like working at them and some kids like being at them? And some of them get good results!

BestZebbie · 14/08/2024 19:58

I'd have Yrs 5-8 in a middle school and then go from there to high school for exam courses. Up to Yr4 to be more play-based, topic work. Middle school to sharpen skills and core knowledge.

In secondary I'd stream not by grade but by effort/engagement in class - to reduce classroom disruption for students that want to work/give them an atmosphere where they aren't discouraged from answering questions etc.
The lower set(s) in this would get a lot of additional extra-subject support to work out what their unmet needs are, with well-funded individualised help that could be called in for SEN and also domestic violence, poverty, young caring responsibilities, county lines/incel culture deprogramming etc to try to give them the best chance of good grades despite their personal barriers to education (this support network could also be triggered for a hardworking student in these situations too, once flagged up).

I'd also ensure that everyone had a place to go at lunchtime that was sheltered from the weather and enough time to both acquire and eat their food.

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 20:07

Pythag · 14/08/2024 19:38

But some teachers like working at them and some kids like being at them? And some of them get good results!

And you think there should be CEOs on huge salaries when departments don’t have the budget for basics ? (Personal experience)

Pythag · 14/08/2024 20:15

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 20:07

And you think there should be CEOs on huge salaries when departments don’t have the budget for basics ? (Personal experience)

To the extent that you don’t want to work in an academy, don’t work in one. However, some MATs get great outcomes for pupils and that is what I care about.

Shinyandnew1 · 14/08/2024 20:19

Also, get rid of all the "school improvement" consultants who've no idea what the individual kids in your classes actually need and bulldoze through the department in order to "improve" attainment.

Oh yes, there is a massive and growing sector of educational specialists who charge schools a fortune to come in and offer their expertise or run Mocksteds to get schools ‘ofsted ready’. They charge thousands and just come and wander around with clipboards and very shiny suits and shoes, inflicting huge amounts of stress doing Deep Dives on stressed teachers. If Oftsed wasn’t such a high stakes-one word judgement/job losses/academisation, this wouldn’t be a thing. They are often people who have never taught or taught for just a short period and left because they were shit.

Fridaysoon · 14/08/2024 20:20

Learning styles - look here and here, for example, for articles saying it’s a myth.

It’s not surprising that it still exists as a theory, though. A few years ago DD got a job as a university lecturer, and was required to do the HE version of a PGCE part-time.
She opted to do a hybrid version: the first bit was online or distance learning (can’t remember which) and the second in person.

In the first section she learned that the theory of learning styles had been discredited. When she started the in-person section the first thing they taught her, uncritically, was learning styles.

I’m a retired teacher. If my students didn’t bring a pencil, biro, ruler, pair of scissors or glue stick to a lesson it was no problem, they just borrowed one from my class supplies. It saved lesson time and removed an unimportant source of conflict.

Yes, it was a private school. I’d like to see state schools properly funded so they could do the same.

Edited to remove an unexpected bit of formatting.

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 20:23

Pythag · 14/08/2024 20:15

To the extent that you don’t want to work in an academy, don’t work in one. However, some MATs get great outcomes for pupils and that is what I care about.

People aren’t working in them, they’re leaving in droves - how many years have you worked in one ?

Pythag · 14/08/2024 20:28

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 20:23

People aren’t working in them, they’re leaving in droves - how many years have you worked in one ?

Edited

I am not aware of any statistics that say that people are leaving MATs at a greater rate than they are leaving other schools.

If nobody works at one, presumably you don’t need to get rid of them!

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 20:36

Pythag · 14/08/2024 20:28

I am not aware of any statistics that say that people are leaving MATs at a greater rate than they are leaving other schools.

If nobody works at one, presumably you don’t need to get rid of them!

How many years have you worked in one ?

TeamPolin · 14/08/2024 20:43

If money were no object etc....

I'd design a curriculum that is fit for the world kids are growing up into, not a curriculum from the 1950s. It would include critical thinking, lessons on AI, cyber security, financial literacy, political literacy. better sex education to tackle the distorted views young people have developed through access to porn etc.

Every teacher would have to have mandatory training in SEND as part of their teacher training.

Schools would have better respurced, multi-disciplinary pastoral teams, incorporating professionals such as counsellors, Ed psychs, social workers, school nurses etc on permanent staff.

Pythag · 14/08/2024 20:44

Pettyhangingbaskets · 14/08/2024 20:36

How many years have you worked in one ?

I don’t work in a MAT. I do work in an academy though. I’d happily work at one of the Mossbourne academies in Hackey, which have got many deprived children into Oxbridge. You want to close down those schools.

Ted27 · 14/08/2024 20:53

Scrap the distinction between mainstream and special schools.
There needs to be a range of schools which can meet the needs of different groups of children.
What they are called is irrelevant really, a school is a school.

I have an adopted son who attended special school for several years. He went to a lovely school with amazing teachers where he was able to learn and progress. When he was ready he was able to move across to mainstream.
I have recently had a foster child who attended an SEMH school. Light years away from my son's schools. To be honest at times it was like a zoo, though a zoo would probably be more orderly. Again fantastic teachers but not as much learning - and a lot of stigma for attending 'that' school

gladiolionthesideboard · 14/08/2024 21:03

Get rid of GCSEs completely!

mayfridayjune · 14/08/2024 21:09

change the school day to suit the teen bodyclock better.

DrCoconut · 14/08/2024 21:29

Get rid of the ridiculous obsession with attendance. A reasonable amount of time off for holidays would be allowed again. No penalties for children with illnesses or disabilities anymore. Mental health as a priority. Zero tolerance of bullying. Make competitive sports a hobby for outside school like most other interests. The focus in school PE should be health - teach about nutrition and have inclusive exercise. More focus on maths - I'm astonished that so many Brits are almost proud of being very poor at maths. They'd never say "ooh I can't read" with a silly giggle so why has the national attitude towards numeracy become so poor? Not saying everyone should pass advanced calculus but (in the absence of relevant learning disabilities/difficulties) no one should leave school unable go work out basic things like percentages or areas or calculate a budget for an event for example. Wrap around care for (eg) working parents.

Labraradabrador · 14/08/2024 21:43

Narnoc · 14/08/2024 18:40

I disagree with continuous assessment forming the bulk of the final grade. I think a public final exam is the only way to make sure that the playing field is level and that the award process is objective, fair and transparent. Continuous assessment by teachers is open to manipulation. Just look at what happened with CAGs and TAGs a few years back. Some schools, mainly private ones, overinflated results and abused the discretion aspect of the process.

However, I do agree with the grades in hand application as currently some schools will manipulate those to get the right answer for the course being applied for. Again, private schools are under more pressure to bow to parents on this as they are their customers. Thankfully, there is currently a check in the system in that grades have to be achieved to secure the place offered. However, some universities will show some leeway here so it is not a complete foil.

Why would you not have the breadth of GCSEs and narrow things down to just Maths and English? Makes no sense. Also, just a pass or fail is doing a disservice to the very high achieving DC as they should get recognition for their ability. What is wrong with a hierarchy of achievements? I don't like this stickers for everyone mentality.

Exams are NOT a level playing field - the relationship between exam results and household income + maternal education attainment demonstrates that fact. Exam performance is not the same as actual subject mastery. It is possible to underperform on an exam due to SEND like dyslexia or ASD that make it difficult to demonstrate your knowledge under exam conditions. It is also possible to overperform on an exam with sufficient coaching on exam marking criteria and test taking strategies that have nothing to do with your subject matter expertise. A rank ordering of ability based on exams alone (or even as a major component) is inherently flawed. Selective use of testing to validate course work appraisals might have a place, but a system that centres on the exam is the tail wagging the dog. It also results in a secondary school experience that is both deadly dull and unhealthily pressurised.

i am not advocating a change to the breadth of the curriculum- I just don’t think you need to hold exams on every subject. Exams on a couple core areas where students either meet the threshold for literacy/numeracy or don’t (and then get additional support in following years) is probably a useful application of exams, but the difference between an 8 and a 9 is probably not particularly important (or accurate). Unshackling education from exams would give teachers much more leeway to adapt the syllabus in fun and exciting ways more likely to engage students.

I have no problem with recognising achievement, but the current system has an overly narrow definition of success and artificially limits the number of places at the top based on suspect criteria. There should be far more paths to achieving excellence, and more open mindedness around the different forms excellence might take. education should be an exercise in building talent not a winnowing exercise.

BogusHocusPocus · 14/08/2024 21:51

Level 2 Functional Skills Maths and English for weaker students

Standard class size of 22

Ban mobile phones durian the school day

... these three simple steps would RaDiCaLlY transform secondary education for the better.

  • ex-secondary school teacher (15 years)
Babbahabba · 14/08/2024 21:52

Basic uniforms- polo shirts and leggings/joggers or shorts in summer with flat shoes. Remove any hair/jewellery restrictions. I'd still favour no/minimal make up.

Babbahabba · 14/08/2024 21:53

I'd also stream PE for ability in the same way other subjects are.