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Education

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How would you reform Secondary education

176 replies

CurlewKate · 14/08/2024 12:37

If you had a free hand? I would get rid of all state selective and faith schools and introduce a new admissions system based on ballots and fair banding. And I would introduce an extensive school transport network. That would be my starting point. I haven't yet worked out the details for children who genuinely can't access mainstream education, but I do think that most can with proper support. Which will, of course, be in place. This needs more thought and input from experts once My Glorious Reign comes into effect.
I would also have rigorous and regular inspections. Free school meals for all. BTecs or some similar system will be given the same weight and value as GCSEs and A Levels.

OP posts:
SuePreemly · 14/08/2024 15:02

Ditch Ofsted and return to the old style HMI type "critical friend" type inspections which came with support and and experienced person to help schools.
Ditto SIPs and the pointless TLRs and "projects" they create which do little apart from waste time and energy.
Ditch league tables
Ditch ebacc
Make all subjects equal on the timetable. Why do kids finish maths GCSE curriculum in year 10 and spend a year basically revising, and yet don't get time to complete the geography curriculum because it receives 2hrs a week less teaching time. Make the subjects have equal value.
Fund specialist intervention for kids who struggle including reduced timetables
Create and raise practicable alternative qualifications in schools like release from school a day a week to learn trades.
Hold parents accountable for their children's behaviour and if they don't sort the kid, then there needs to be accountability in terms of the law or another body: abuse of staff will become unacceptable.
Abusive parents (towards staff) will have their children removed from roll and they can home educate their little darlings instead.
Teachers given a day a week proper prep time
Modular exams back again
Two week October half term or two separate weeks somewhere in the hell that is the autumn term. Mix those up so the bloody holiday companies don't have us over a barrel
Life skills to be compulsory like PHSE (interesting my DDs secondary does do a life skills course at KS3!)
Compulsory mental health skills involving music, art, physical and other therapies like nature connection to help kids ground their MH better.
Fund more TAs, and pay them properly.

TERFtown · 14/08/2024 15:07

Make it easier to expel persistent troublemakers

Punish bullying/ abuse as harshly as possible

Offer more vocations

Make uniform more comfortable and affordable, like a tracksuit

Believe teachers

Ban time wasting and trouble making parents from school premises

DramaLlamaBangBang · 14/08/2024 15:10

BananaLambo · 14/08/2024 12:45

I’d have core subjects as maths, English language, personal health and finance, business and economics, computing and AI, and science. Choose four or five from the rest including one from history or geography, and a language.

I would do the same, although fewer subjects- just maths, English and maybe science as compulsory and examined at 16, then students put on a pathway of qualifications- gcse or functional skills, depending on levels achieved and a high school certificate ( like most other countries have) where students can choose subjects they want to learn- different pathways- Science, humanities, languages, vocational that will only be examined at 18, and early enough to get rid of predicted grades. That would free up time in the curriculum for life skills type classes in finance etc.

mondaytosunday · 14/08/2024 15:14

I would get rid of GCSEs and A levels. I would have kids do a broader range of subjects up until 18, with a core group and then options depending on interest. I'd have standardised tests at the end of each term, and graded moderated coursework. Option in last two years to take (this would most likely be a separate place like now) more vocational qualifications.
Applications to university/apprenticeships would be by March 1 of last year, with grades/marks known. Students can apply to as many unis as they want, and for different subjects, writing a different PS/essay for each different subject. Offers would be sent back by June 1 (at the latest, allowing three months for interviews). Any extra exams specific to the degree will have been taken earlier as they are now. Offers will be firm, as there are no further exams and unis have four years of grades and termly exam results, the essay and interviews if required (and specialised exams like for medicine etc).
Students will need to complete the year (say til some point in June) and get a certificate/diploma stating this in order to go on to uni or further qualification - that would be the only condition of the offer. If going out to work they would also need this certificate to say they had completed their education.

menopausalmare · 14/08/2024 15:31

Rehab4rightmove · 14/08/2024 15:00

I'd replace the national curriculum with the international baccalaureate curriculum.
Have classes that are split by learning style rather than attainment.

Learner styles went out the window over 15 years ago. Utter nonsense.

Shinyandnew1 · 14/08/2024 15:41

I’d scrap Ofsted and have a supportive local HMI system.

Cut 1/3 out of the curriculum.

Pay teachers centrally so it doesn’t screw up the HT’s budget if they have lots of UPS teachers.

Primary rather than secondary but I would like the government to decide on a good phonic scheme and release it online free (like the last Labour government did) rather than having a state-sanctioned list of government approved-schemes which the Tories favoured…each of which cost individual schools thousands (as you need the accompanying reading scheme). They could decide at any point to remove a scheme from their list as well which would totally screw schools. We actually quite liked Letters and Sounds…

DramaLlamaBangBang · 14/08/2024 15:49

MissyB1 · 14/08/2024 12:47

I would get rid of GCSEs altogether, instead leaving exams at age 18. There would be a wider choice of what those exams looked like, some vocational, possibly functional skills etc…

Totally agree. If school leaving age is 18, there is no point in these overly prescriptive overstuffed qualifications, apart from bragging rights on Mumsnet!

Magpiecomplex · 14/08/2024 15:53

More focus on understanding and critical thinking, and less on memorising the "right" answer.

Also (sore point currently) parity between secondary teachers and college lecturers in terms of pay and conditions.

AngelusBell · 14/08/2024 15:59

Shinyandnew1 · 14/08/2024 15:41

I’d scrap Ofsted and have a supportive local HMI system.

Cut 1/3 out of the curriculum.

Pay teachers centrally so it doesn’t screw up the HT’s budget if they have lots of UPS teachers.

Primary rather than secondary but I would like the government to decide on a good phonic scheme and release it online free (like the last Labour government did) rather than having a state-sanctioned list of government approved-schemes which the Tories favoured…each of which cost individual schools thousands (as you need the accompanying reading scheme). They could decide at any point to remove a scheme from their list as well which would totally screw schools. We actually quite liked Letters and Sounds…

I agree re - phonics, schemes are a huge cost to schools. Letters and Sounds was fine.

PhillipMontyTomato · 14/08/2024 16:11

I would suggest a pass/fail exam at the end of year 9 in functional English and Maths. The pass level is set at the level you need to function at in society. It becomes the equivalent of having to have a gcse in English and Maths but it would be more practical. Lots of percentages, statistics and graphs for example in the maths.

Then from year 9 you go down a vocational or an academic route as you prefer. Its a free choice between them as long as you have a pass at the functional English/Maths. If you don't have a pass you would have to repeat the year if you want to go down the academic route. Vocational route students keep improving their English and Maths, resit the functional exams if needed (small groups and lots of extra help for those who are struggling to get to this level) and get opportunities to learn a variety of other subjects like MFL

School leaving exams in the academic route are taken in January of Year 13. You apply to University once you have the results. Everyone on this route has to keep studying some form of maths and a written subject until the end and you have to take about six subjects.

The hardest thing would be to develop high quality vocational education that gave young people useful skills. It couldn't for example be endless make up and beauty courses.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 14/08/2024 16:26

Also (sore point currently) parity between secondary teachers and college lecturers in terms of pay and conditions.
I hate to tell you this if you are currently/newly in FE, but the number of strikes me and my colleagues went on over this in the olden days ( the 90's/2000's!) was ridiculous. Every government always talks about vocational training yet treat FE like shit and have for a long time. Even though it's the college sector who in the main do the vocational training!
We even got done over on pay being docked when we went on strike!

shshshshsh · 14/08/2024 16:26

I would reduce class sizes. I would abolish GCSEs, continue with the range of subjects but study for the love of learning rather than to pass an exam. A functional maths and literacy skills test could remain if deemed necessary by employers. Acknowledge school isn't the best learning environment for every child- I would make it easier to offer flexi schooling and online schooling for those pupils who would benefit from it.
I would stop the focus on attendance (and criminalising parents) and focus on wellbeing and happiness- carrot rather than stick - make schools a place pupils want to attend.
I would increase the number of SEN schools/places and make it quicker/easier for parents to get their children into these schools.

Shinyandnew1 · 14/08/2024 16:28

AngelusBell · 14/08/2024 15:59

I agree re - phonics, schemes are a huge cost to schools. Letters and Sounds was fine.

Yep-the decision to stop schools using that has made some publishers a fuck tonne of cash! It’s all shades of wrong.

MouseofCommons · 14/08/2024 16:30

Apart from more and better paid teachers I'd update uniform. Get rid of shirts and shoes and change to hoodies, polo shirts and trainers. Much better for children with sensory issues, or anyone who likes being comfortable really.....

Laundryliar · 14/08/2024 16:32

I wouldnt reform secondary. Id reform early years and pre-school support fpr families l, bring back surestart etc, and support families with young children better. Pretty sure a lot of the issues emerging in secondary these days are down to problems missed early on, families not getting enough support in the early years to get sleeping, eating, and boundaries sorted, kids not getting to access the support they need early on which means by secondary they've fallen way behind with no hope of ever getting back on track.
Have to fix the beginning and the middle to fix the end.

Araminta1003 · 14/08/2024 16:58

I would keep children in primary settings all with 2-3 form entries (I would remix classes every 2 years) until the end of year 8. Then I would stream in years 9/10/11 into stream A, B and C and the end certificate would be taken at the end of Year 11. The streams would be on the same site and some flexibility between them. Stream C is for those struggling and the aim is to have small classes and get to functional maths and English with lots of attention. I would also have a SEN unit attached to every school and an individual learning plan for those kids so they can pop into some mainstream classes, if that were in their interest. Sports would be really well funded too and massively encouraged in every school and the youngest kids in primary would do a lot of forest school and outdoor play but learning at the same time. School would also have fun aspects again and any kid who is struggling at home would get pastoral support and an individual learning plan. Every child who is gifted at anything either academically or extracurricularly would also be identified and supported to promote that.

Sixth Form I would keep quite similar but IB offered widely to the academic all rounders. I would make sure the less academic kids have a good college route too and make sure there are much closer ties with employers if they are learning something that really does require practical skills from day 1. I would give those companies tax incentives to give those kids regular work experience.

Magpiecomplex · 14/08/2024 17:14

@DramaLlamaBangBang yes, frustrating, isn't it? I am currently FE and have been for a few years, but my college also teaches HE and that's what keeps me going.

Meadowwild · 14/08/2024 17:23

heldinadream · 14/08/2024 12:41

I would prioritise the individual well-being of every child over achievement. I believe achievement is supported by health and happiness, not the other way round.
I would pour resources into teachers and counsellors and mentors, all trained to be child-centred. I would make it an absolute right for every child to have their concerns, dreams, hopes, fears listened to.

I would send my child to your school

Meadowwild · 14/08/2024 17:38

I would make schools much smaller and separate out years 7-9 from 10-13. Too many children get traumatised and overwhelmed by the sheer vastness and anonymity of secondary. Unnecessary.

I would have nationwide thorough training on bullying and how to tackle it from every POV - the victim, bully, parents, staff, so that it is not brushed under the carpet. I would do that thing a US teacher did where she got everyone to write down the names of two people they'd like to sit next to the following week, and then check which children weren't chosen by anyone. Those children would be supported subtly to develop social skills so there are no social outcasts in any class.

I'd ensure that physical fitness was prioritised and that pupils who are shit at team sports simply got to choose individual fitness programmes instead.

I'd teach life skills: relationships, personal finance, resilience, boundaries, time management, how to keep a home tidy, clean and well-organised, how to build a life worth having, how to make friends in a new place or if your old ones have drifted away, job interview skills, how to disagree with another person;s POV without a fight or sulk etc.

All food on site would be super healthy and nutritious. All schools would have playing fields, and would at least share a swimming pool that enabled every class to swim at least once a week.

All schools would offer triple science and relevant foreign languages like Egyptian Arabic and Mandarin as well as European languages.

All schools, as well as having A-teams for sport and arts would have all-welcome teams. One of the things I loved best about my shitty comp was that they let me into the school choir and orchestra. I was rubbish at music. But I loved it and have very happy memories of concerts.

I would get rid of any high-salaried middle management and focus on excellent teaching and support staff. Since it is a fantasy, I would give teachers a massive pay rise, hold onto experienced staff with excellent bonuses and quadruple the budget for each pupil.

Meadowwild · 14/08/2024 17:40

MouseofCommons · 14/08/2024 16:30

Apart from more and better paid teachers I'd update uniform. Get rid of shirts and shoes and change to hoodies, polo shirts and trainers. Much better for children with sensory issues, or anyone who likes being comfortable really.....

I watched a programme about a Chinese school. They wore sweats. They could move freely and comfortably at all times. There was no sexualisation of girls - everyone looked the same in a good way.

Meadowwild · 14/08/2024 17:42

shshshshsh · 14/08/2024 16:26

I would reduce class sizes. I would abolish GCSEs, continue with the range of subjects but study for the love of learning rather than to pass an exam. A functional maths and literacy skills test could remain if deemed necessary by employers. Acknowledge school isn't the best learning environment for every child- I would make it easier to offer flexi schooling and online schooling for those pupils who would benefit from it.
I would stop the focus on attendance (and criminalising parents) and focus on wellbeing and happiness- carrot rather than stick - make schools a place pupils want to attend.
I would increase the number of SEN schools/places and make it quicker/easier for parents to get their children into these schools.

Totally agree the nonsense about attendance would end. Sick children being penalised and parents of sick children being criminalised disgusts me.

NowItsMeMyselfAndI · 14/08/2024 17:54

Wishihadanalgorithm · 14/08/2024 12:58

I’d make more schools that are focused on children with ASD or ADHD. Create environments which are more suited to the ND child and can allow them to thrive and succeed.

I’d cap classroom sizes to a max of 20.

School would be open 8-6 with lessons 9-4 and the additional time to be optional for wraparound care/clubs.

At Yr 9 pupils could choose to go down a regular route with option subjects such as History, Music and Art or pick up a vocational qualification such as plastering, hairdressing, bricklaying etc. This would be alongside a core of English, Maths and Science.

Teachers would be paid very well and be given time everyday for planning and marking.

Mental health would be addressed with each school having at least one counsellor and welfare team.

I would also introduce a life skills class where pupils learn skills they should (but may not be) taught at home such as how mortgages work, the type of debt you do and don’t want, how to budget, how to plan a healthy menu etc.

My selective state school did a lot of this “practical life skills” stuff - we learned it in our PHSE lessons. They even covered “how to live off a student grant without spending it all on booze and cds in week1”.

They also taught how to change a tyre; basics of English electoral systems; jury service; how to work out if expensive paying for something on credit is; basic payroll taxes etc.

And proper careers counselling, provided by the LA

Absolutely brilliant and ALL schools should do this. It was stuff the teachers knew anyway (the tricky bits were done by the economics teachers).

Narnoc · 14/08/2024 18:40

Labraradabrador · 14/08/2024 14:14

100% this - having been educated in a different country this whole system where you don’t know for sure where you are going until 2 weeks before is bonkers and unnecessarily stressful.

I would also scrap GCSEs and replace with a streamlined English and Maths assessment that evaluates core skills and is pass/fail. So much of the uk system seems intent on achieving some sort of rank order hierarchy of achievement which doesn’t really reflect the diversity we should be aspiring for in our future workforce.

I disagree with continuous assessment forming the bulk of the final grade. I think a public final exam is the only way to make sure that the playing field is level and that the award process is objective, fair and transparent. Continuous assessment by teachers is open to manipulation. Just look at what happened with CAGs and TAGs a few years back. Some schools, mainly private ones, overinflated results and abused the discretion aspect of the process.

However, I do agree with the grades in hand application as currently some schools will manipulate those to get the right answer for the course being applied for. Again, private schools are under more pressure to bow to parents on this as they are their customers. Thankfully, there is currently a check in the system in that grades have to be achieved to secure the place offered. However, some universities will show some leeway here so it is not a complete foil.

Why would you not have the breadth of GCSEs and narrow things down to just Maths and English? Makes no sense. Also, just a pass or fail is doing a disservice to the very high achieving DC as they should get recognition for their ability. What is wrong with a hierarchy of achievements? I don't like this stickers for everyone mentality.

Narnoc · 14/08/2024 18:43

NowItsMeMyselfAndI · 14/08/2024 17:54

My selective state school did a lot of this “practical life skills” stuff - we learned it in our PHSE lessons. They even covered “how to live off a student grant without spending it all on booze and cds in week1”.

They also taught how to change a tyre; basics of English electoral systems; jury service; how to work out if expensive paying for something on credit is; basic payroll taxes etc.

And proper careers counselling, provided by the LA

Absolutely brilliant and ALL schools should do this. It was stuff the teachers knew anyway (the tricky bits were done by the economics teachers).

My DC have done this at school too. They said it was okay but that it was nothing we hadn't taught them at home. Clearly it depends on the individual but mine would rather have been doing Maths, Chemistry or more sport.

taxguru · 14/08/2024 19:13

I'd scrap the "year by year" progress and the existing lessons/exam based system completely.

I'd move to a kind of modular system (akin to Uni or maybe secondary in some other countries) where the pupils gains points for completing modules, each of which would last one term. No end of year exams, no GCSE exams. Modules "marked" by means of both coursework/assignment and an end of term modular test. At age 16, they gain an overall mark which is an accumulation of scores of all modules taken.

Those struggling would have slower paced "lifeskills" based modules such as numeracy and literacy as essentials, plus "starter" modules in other topics such as basic science, basic foreign language (numbers and common vocab, etc rather than grammar). Basic/starter modules would attract fewer points. More able students would go through the basic modules more quickly (or by pass them altogether) and then go through a succession of modules as the years pass in their chosen subjects, but again with Maths and English as compulsory. Most pupils would do "intermediate" modules which give more points than the starter modules. Advanced/able students would be able to do advanced modules which give more points than intermediate ones. Pupils would be free to do a wide range of basic/intermediate modules in many subjects, or for those with particular abilities/interests could do a narrower range of subjects, but more modules, including harder ones.

It would end the "you have to move up a year" way of working which has to be a good thing. Pupils could "move up" when they were ready, so the system allows for a bad year or delayed developers rather than putting them behind where they can never catch up. You'd have pupils of different ages in classes, but that's not a bad thing as it encourages a wider mix of people grouped according to ability rather than age.

Doing it term by term would also eliminate the problem of a pupil being stuck for a full year doing a subject they don't like, or can't do, or where they don't gel with the teacher. They only "suffer" one term of it and can then move to something/someone else for the next term.