WWYD- moving from private to state

[Onceanexpat1]

So, unsurprisingly we’ve had to reconsider our finances when it comes to private school for our children; one who is going into Year 7 in September and one going into Year 9. They’re at a small independent school (not a big public school) that will pass all 20% on to the parents while also raising fees next year so we’re looking at a 25% increase. We chose the school as it was a nurturing, small school (and also more affordable than other private options) for my eldest who after COVID had quite a lot of anxiety and we just didn’t think that she would cope in a year of 240 children. Our local state options are both Ark (one used to be in special measures until it was taken over) so they are very strict as well which we felt also wouldn’t help her. We’ve always wanted to live in a nicer, leafier part of London, but couldn’t afford it. I’m now wondering if we should rent a house next door to a very good state school (rent £4500) and try and get my youngest in for Year 7. I’m hoping she would get a place by half term or atleast Christmas if we get the house I’m thinking of renting as it’s on the same street. The difference between renting for the year and our mortgage is more than the 25% increase, but if we factor in fees for the next 7 years we obviously more than recoup the costs. I’m worried about the fact that we’d probably keep our eldest at her current school. I just think moving her at this stage would be very difficult for her, she is settled with friends and will start preparing for GCSEs next year. This means I would give one child something and not the other. I don’t want this to cause resentment in the future. My youngest, although not completely adverse to the idea of moving to the new school - she knows some people there already and has a more outgoing personality- is not 100% sold on the idea. Should we just stay put and cut back for the next three years until my eldest can move to a state sixth form? Or would you move now and then we can live in a nicer area and save ourselves £125k in school fees? Im also slightly worried about the impact VAT would have on the school. I could see it closing as it’s not oversubscribed- they haven’t done any big capital works so won’t be able to claim back anything, and parents there are not the super rich you see in other parts of London. Most are just scrimping fees together. So I guess this move is also me trying to mitigate the risk of having to scrabble for a place in the future should I need to.

It seems like quite a risk. If this state school is a good one compared with others in the area,why would you expect it to have empty places?

“although hopefully we would get a space after a term or so if we rented near enough.”

It is pretty unlikely that anyone will leave in the first term or two, though.

As others have said, the post offer day waiting list shifts have already happened and you won’t be in the rental for the first day of term when the odd pupil doesn’t show up (as their parents forgot to say they were going private etc)

So you could be on the waiting list a very long time!

I would apply tomorrow for the Year 7 and get on the waiting lists to all good schools across London within commuting distance, before the official wait lists close OP! That is still for normal year 7 entry right now amd DC is without place. Ring your council first thing today as well.

They do in London.

my son’s class of 30 had 5 leave within the first year!

The waiting lists for year 7 entry keep shifting until mid September usually as pupils do not show up. You must get on the list now before it becomes an in year application. In London, during the waiting list period surprising things can happen. Many kids do get places first few weeks of September.

But your opinion is wrong. You can have your own opinion. You can’t have your own facts.

Admissions Policies don’t vary because the applicant is from the local private school

@StormingNorman if you remove your blinkers and rose tinted glasses, you might be able to see that state schools cannot do any such thing as moving heaven and earth to admit any kids once they’re full. Ex private school or not. They are legally bound by the Admissions Code to determine a legal admissions policy and only admit in accordance to it. This is called an even playing field. There are no legs up. No unfair advantages. Money doesn’t talk. Name dropping is of no advantage. It will quite possibly be a very rude awakening for families who are not used to things being so fair and their usual influence not working for once.

Actually it would be naive. Admission procedures are in place and their criteria followed. You can't buy yourself a place.

I am not sure what all this can't own and rent thing is about - its not true. We were renovating our house (no roof) when my kids applied to a local 6th form so we were in a rental - school did not ask do you both own a house and rent. Besides, lots of kids have parents who split up and then have two households. What the school needs from you is a utility bill at your rental address. There can be some rules around asking to see a 12 month rental agreement, but we have never been asked for that.

Also when my kids were little and in nursery and we moved into a new area so we rented (in catchment) but then we bought a house 10mins down the road but it ended up not being in catchment - I went to speak to the head mistress because we had twins and wanted them in different classes and our new catchment area school could not do that.

The headmistress rang the council in front of me and the council told her if we were in the rental the day I submitted the application form then that was the address the council considered us to be in as there needed to be a cut off. The headmistress recommended I stay in the rental until the application deadline - and then we could move. The only thing they said is that honesty was important so I needed to tell the council when I moved. My children were offered places and when they started school it was from our new house out of catchment.

With government schools you don't need to rent the entire time your child goes there.

Also, I have twins - one at private (similar reasons for your child) and the other at a government school. the one at the government school wants to be there - he prefers walking to school etc. I used to threaten him if he did not keep grades up I would send him private. We also consider his government school to give him a better education and pastoral care than my daughter's private - she was offered a place at his school but she would not be able to handle the large numbers of children there. Don't assume your youngest will get a worse education or feel left out - speak to them in depth about their choices.

Thos whole plan sounds completely crackers.

@ittakes2 presumably you could demonstrate that your own property was uninhabitable at the time, should the LA have requested it. Different LA vary and often limit use of a second address. Even in case of separated parents you cannot just nominate one without the child evidenced as residing there the majority of the time, such as from where gp is registered or cb claimed.

That is absolutely not how it works.

There are criteria, such as distance from the school, looked after children, siblings etc.

Do you seriously think there are headteachers out there prioritising former private school pupils because they are somehow better?

What a load of rubbish.

What is your Plan B, both for September (if your DD hasn't been offered a place by the start of the year) and for January (if she hasn't been offered a place by Christmas)?

The difference to consider isn't between your mortgage and the rental cost - unless you plan to sell, which seems extreme - but between renting the place close to the better school vs renting out your existing home (minus costs). Is there a house available for rent close to any of the schools you'd like to target?

Unless you can make the house move pretty much immediately, I think @Araminta1003 has it exactly right that you need to get yourself on all the waiting lists today. You can update the schools with your new address once you manage to move.

Get them both on the waiting lists for all schools you'd consider, and see what you get. Start of Year 9 is still OK to move, and you can get quite a lot of tutoring for the cost of school fees if you do need to catch up on some areas the new school has already covered. Personally, for a Y9 I'd be more concerned about what the school is like in general than I would be about missed topics - so long as she can take the subjects she wants.

You'll presumably hold off from giving notice to their existing school until you've secured a state place. Whilst that means forfeiting a terms fees (since you'll need to take the state place as soon as you get it) it's worth the money so that you have a Plan B in place as @thehousewiththesagegreensofa suggests, so that you can hold on for the right state school.

If you’re worried about the current school closing then moving them asap either to another private school or a state would be better. If people are already leaving then this is even more important

All over the country, reports of people complaining about neighbours on a certain Internet forum banging their heads on party wals in frustration...?

I have a feeling that it won't help alter @StormingNorman 's opinions of how the state education system works, but here goes...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60ebfeb08fa8f50c76838685/School_admissions_code_2021.pdf

Whilst of course state schools need to follow their criteria, there does seem to be a certain amount of flexibility, in that they can make strategic decisions like offering over PAN or adding a bulge class.

I asked on a previous thread why so many Surrey state secondary schools offered over PAN and showed bulge classes in their current plans for next year. A poster explained that they do that when they expect lots of students not to take up their place (due to getting a wait list offer at a preferred school). By offering to extra students, they're more likely to get back up to PAN by the October census which is used for funding.

In particular, a bulge class allows them to offer to extra students without committing to extra teachers, and without risking falling below PAN and being forced to take Fair Access Protocol students, who are likely to be challenging in higher numbers (the poster mentioned the possibility of a gang where 5-10 of those involved are all moved to that one school at the same time - which would make it very hard to actually help the childten)

It all seems quite a lot more complicated than simply 'if there's space, the schools take students in admission priority order'.

Sure, schools can't skip over one student in order to offer to another, but they do have strategies and options.

I think OP's current private school would be quite happy to waive the fee increase as OP's children are so naice and such an asset to the school.

There we are, problem solved.

Meanwhile back in the real world ...

I doubt that those working in admissions in schools and LEAs are plotting ways to take former private school pupils (in fact, some comments on this board suggest that some would be plotting ways to reject them).

But I certainly hope LEAs are planning ahead for the impact of VAT as well as they can.

There is a difference between academies which manage their admissions in-house and apply the code and ask the governors in case of a grey area vs LA schools. Some people on this board are a little naive.

So for example, end of August I have been called up multiple times by a different eg grammar on the phone to offer one of my DC a place, by the school directly, I am sure they are professional and go through their lists, but at late stage you just need to get yourselves on as many lists as possible all over town and you might get a perfectly good place for the year 7 (and then might be able to go top of waiting list as sibling for the Year 9), could also appeal for year 9 once you have a year 7 place.

Renting somewhere you don't live for admissions is fraud

I left private at the end of y10 (only there for 1y as joined for bullying then parents redundant), didn't do me any harm still came out with 9a* 5as

Some private schools do, I got 40% fee bursary for getting high marks in the entrance exam, parents couldn't have afforded it otherwise

Thanks all for your helpful insights. Sorry if this post has somehow been misconstrued into the usual state v private debate. To be 100% clear, I don’t think my children are too naice to go to a maintained school- we chose private for very personal reasons for my eldest and if I had known what today would look like, we would have probably made a different decision. I would not move to get my daughter in to the school and then move back home so it wouldn’t be fraud: as stated I have always wanted to move to the area where the school is, so the plan would be to rent there long term with the view to buying eventually. While also appreciating your advice on the admissions policy, I have read and understand what this looks like and know what my options are. To those that have shared your own experience of offering one child one experience and the other another, or having to start at a new school at a different point of entry, I appreciate your reassurance that it would be alright. Also, thanks to whoever recommended I look at our existing schools finances- I did this and it looks stable which is reassuring. We’ve decided that we are going to wait and see what the school tells us about how they will be incorporating VAT and if all will passed onto parents or if they will carry some of the costs. I’ll also see which (if any) schools near our current home have spaces for both the girls. We are in a fortunate position in that we don’t have to change schools, for now, so my feeling is that I should keep them where they are for stability until my eldest can go somewhere else for sixth form. Thank you 🙏

Putting grandparents address when the child doesn't live there is an example of fraud.

Moving house isn't fraud, so long as you tell the truth.