WWYD- moving from private to state

[Onceanexpat1]

So, unsurprisingly we’ve had to reconsider our finances when it comes to private school for our children; one who is going into Year 7 in September and one going into Year 9. They’re at a small independent school (not a big public school) that will pass all 20% on to the parents while also raising fees next year so we’re looking at a 25% increase. We chose the school as it was a nurturing, small school (and also more affordable than other private options) for my eldest who after COVID had quite a lot of anxiety and we just didn’t think that she would cope in a year of 240 children. Our local state options are both Ark (one used to be in special measures until it was taken over) so they are very strict as well which we felt also wouldn’t help her. We’ve always wanted to live in a nicer, leafier part of London, but couldn’t afford it. I’m now wondering if we should rent a house next door to a very good state school (rent £4500) and try and get my youngest in for Year 7. I’m hoping she would get a place by half term or atleast Christmas if we get the house I’m thinking of renting as it’s on the same street. The difference between renting for the year and our mortgage is more than the 25% increase, but if we factor in fees for the next 7 years we obviously more than recoup the costs. I’m worried about the fact that we’d probably keep our eldest at her current school. I just think moving her at this stage would be very difficult for her, she is settled with friends and will start preparing for GCSEs next year. This means I would give one child something and not the other. I don’t want this to cause resentment in the future. My youngest, although not completely adverse to the idea of moving to the new school - she knows some people there already and has a more outgoing personality- is not 100% sold on the idea. Should we just stay put and cut back for the next three years until my eldest can move to a state sixth form? Or would you move now and then we can live in a nicer area and save ourselves £125k in school fees? Im also slightly worried about the impact VAT would have on the school. I could see it closing as it’s not oversubscribed- they haven’t done any big capital works so won’t be able to claim back anything, and parents there are not the super rich you see in other parts of London. Most are just scrimping fees together. So I guess this move is also me trying to mitigate the risk of having to scrabble for a place in the future should I need to.

@PretendToBeToastWithMe I don’t mind being quoted when the quote is something that I’ve actually said, in this case it’s not.

Anyway, we’re adding nothing to the discussion by disagreeing about this.

Op, I hope you can find a solution that works for both of your girls.

OP the guidelines for applying should be available online. Some will state a minimum amount of time that you need to live in the house before applying, so read very carefully. You absolutely can rent a house for catchment purposes and then move back to your own home, as long as you meet the requirements laid out in the admissions criteria.

A local school that we have considered for secondary requires children to live in the rented house for around 2 years before applying in order to be considered in catchment. All schools have different admissions criteria and it should be posted on the website.

Of course you can just expect a school place. This is government policy so of course they are going to support the last minute transitions children need to make. Plus, they have a legal obligation to provide children with a school place.

Yes, but not necessarily the school of your choice.

@StormingNorman ""Of course you can just expect a school place."

Yes you can. But not, at this stage, necessarily at the school you want, even if you live next door to it.

I thought that private schools usually required a term’s notice of leaving, so if that’s the case, the earliest a place would be needed in January, in which case you’d apply for an in year transfer.

Would t you still be responsible for the September term fees OP?

So your school doesn’t feed into a public school. You might find the opportunities are much better in state school. There tend to be a fair few comings and going throughout secondary and friendship groups change anyway. It’s not as difficult as switching schools at primary level

Are you looking for a Yr. 7 place for September 2024? Places will have been allocated on National Offer Day in March, then they will have considered the late applicants and waiting list applicants as well as those appealing. Your DD will be offered a place but as a very late or an in-year applicant, it will very much depend on where there are vacancies and who best meets the admission criteria.

Hi OP, we're in a similar situation. If you can, I'd be inclined to keep your Year 9 child in her current school and look for a good state sixth form. I think it's very reasonable to look at alternatives for your Year 7 child. It's not worth scrimping on all life's pleasures for a private education (bar extra needs etc.) She will benefit more from a relaxed, happy family with money for trips, extra curricular and holidays.
We are going to keep our older 2 in private until GCSEs. Our younger DC is only year 4 so we're going to have to think very carefully about whether we send him. We also have the option of using school fee money to buy next to a grammar school if necessary although we are undecided on this.
It's having to make quick decisions that's so tough but I'm sure your kids will be fine whatever you do. Best of luck

I think a lot of state schools would lap up kids coming from private schools, especially the selective ones. There’s a culture of invested parents, good behaviour and often the kids are further ahead in the curriculum because of small classes. All this will reflect positively on the school.

@StormingNorman they might but are legally obliged to follow the process and oversubscription criteria for any vacancies, regardless of the applicant being academic, sporty or coming from a private school.

I am sure state schools will be delighted to have new pupils, including those from state schools, but you make it sound as they say, hmm, yes, we will take that one with the middle class accent, but not that one who says haitch; or, ok, we are technically full with a waiting list but for you, we will make an exception. And that's not how it works, which is what PP meant. If St Outstanding School for the Naice Ones is full, your offered place will be one of the vacant ones at Stabbers Academy, same as everyone else.

Lol @StormingNorman 🤣

If the school is full it’s full! Pupils coming in from other schools still need to be funded no matter where they’re coming from. If the LA won’t fund extra places they won’t be admitting any more pupils. I’m in Wales so have no idea if that’s different for academies as we don’t have any here.

Kids moving from private schools are likely to have studied different curriculums too, and be preparing for different exams (iGCSEs tend not to be sat by state school pupils) which would put them at a disadvantage.

Of course. But it would be naive to think they won’t try to do what they can to prioritise such students.

I think you are the naive one. What do you think they would be able to do?!

I doubt that state schools would see a pupil transferring from a private school as the golden ticket that you seem to think they will @StormingNorman. Rules are rules and the usual process will be followed no matter who it is that is applying for a place.

Thank you for all your replies. The school is oversubscribed (of course!) despite what everyone is saying about there being a drop in birth rates when I looked into schools in my LA at the end of later term, none- except the two Ark schools- had any places. And that was only a handful of places. We would have to join a waiting list, and as long as we can prove it is not an address of convenience (we would let out our current house for a year or maybe more/put it on the market and sell) then we would be considered under the distance criteria. There is nothing about having to have lived in the property for x number of years first. I can’t imagine how that would work in London as it’s such a transient city. I know it seems like I’ve left this to the last minute, but trust me, I didn’t just wake up this morning and think I want to blow up my life. The girls are happy at an all through school my youngest has been at since year 5. We had hoped to keep them both there until sixth form. But the introduction of VAT has really made me wonder if it is worth it. It is so much money and the worst thing is despite the increase the provision at the school won’t improve as the money isn’t going to them. I’m just so worried about sibling rivalry and the problems I might be causing in the future giving one something and not the other. And also about my youngest not joining at the start of Year 7 so she will have to join when everyone’s already made friends, although hopefully we would get a space after a term or so if we rented near enough. We have paid already for next term and we would lose next term’s fees. But I doubt we’d get a space anyway at the start of the year. We can’t leave London owing to jobs, we both need to be in the office three times a week and my husband may have to start going in more. We’re both also from London. This is our home where all are family and friends are.

If you're happy to live in the rental I'd go for it hopefully your youngest will get a place somewhere time in Y7 and you can move your eldest for sixth form when there's loads of shuffle anyway.

I have DC in state and private for various reasons and they're fine with it.

Please don't pay any attention to @StormingNorman. She is giving out false information.

No information. It’s an opinion.

@StormingNorman You said that state schools would "do what they can to accommodate" ex private school pupils. There isn't anything they can do. The admissions criteria are what they are.

Yup. That's the boring thing about state schools - legally bound by the Admissions Code to determine a legal admissions policy and admit according to it, and only according to it, unless compelled ro do otherwise by a higher legal requirement, such as the application for a place by a child with an EHCP naming the school, or the decision of an independent appeal panel that a child should be admitted above the published admission number for the year group.

(And sadly, 'You've got to give my DC a place at the most desirable state school in the area, because they were at a private school, you know' is almost never going to be found by a panel as a compelling reason to override a school's need not to dilute the educational experience for everyone. It's certainly not something which can be included as a legal oversubscription criterion; indies cannot be named as feeder schools).

@Onceanexpat1 , since independent schools never, or at least rarely, place prohibitions on where families can live, and you seem to be considering a fairly prompt move to renting out your own house and moving to a rental property, anyway, is there any scope to do this in a way which allows you to be able to continue to pay the two sets of fees until your elder DD has taken her GCSEs?

Renting on the same street is not a guarantee of admission - we lived literally three houses down from a good state comp, but DC didn't get a place. We appealed but to no avail. The occasional place only came up two years after.

We are in a similar boat as OP..

1 child in year 10 so they will stay put in private school until GCSEs and then we will look at whether to stick with it or jump ship to state college / sixth form. However this is already DC1's fourth school so I rather not jump ship just for the sake of it..

Dc2's prep school has put up the fees by 22% in the last 2 years (pre VAT) and now not value for money. They seem to not be replacing teachers and now there is no head of maths or English.. the new head teacher is sh1t. It's really sad . More leaving this year than coming in and some parents thinking it will close in 2 years and starting to look for alternatives. We are moving DC2 to the grammar school for year 7. It's a sad move. He's very happy at the school and the new school is a significant commute but I'm just not sure what he's learning and we cannot continue to meet the hikes in fees.

My post started with “I think…”

It was an opinion not information. And I stand by my opinion that state schools would move heaven and earth to sweep up displaced private school children because they will be good for behaviour and good for success rates.