What if Keir Starmer had been forced to move school part way through?

[Kitsot]

I find it interesting that Keir Starmer attended a state grammar school and was allowed to stay on for free after it moved to private whilst he was there. He doesn’t seem to consider it an issue that children will need to be moved from private to state school part way through their time at a school due to the VAT imposition. I wonder how different his life would have turned out if he had instead been forced to leave his school and move to the local comprehensive or wherever had space.

Further to this, to me it would make more sense if VAT was only added to fees for children joining at the usual entry points from next September and then going forward for those years from that point. It would still be an unpopular policy but it would at least give parents time to apply for state schools within the normal entry rounds and children wouldn’t need to move school part way through, which can be hard even if it is between two similar types of schools. The downside is that it wouldn’t initially raise as much money as planned.

Just for transparency to add that I am in a fairly neutral position regarding this and have experience of both sectors. I myself am from a working-class background and went to a bog-standard comprehensive in the 1980s.

Sounds like a strong argument for a wealth tax to me.

You would just be creating a new mid-range tier of private schools. It's a terrible idea that I would not support. Yes, there is inequality within the state sector as things stand, and yes, we should implement measures to address this, but not through backdoor privatisation.

I agree. That is a much better suggestion in my view.

I was thinking of something lower and broader. But it’s not happening so I’ll just be grateful instead. I can’t quite do the socially minded thing for other people paying though.

Seems a bit displaced

I am a fulltime working single mum, working 6 days a week. I have had to put my child into a private school near my parents as its out of Borough to where I live, and I'm having to rely on my elderly parents to take my DD to school. I work for the NHS, providing healthcare treatment to the population, and by no means rolling in cash. I could just about manage the school Fees. I can't send her to a state school near me, as I won't get to work on time. So, its not as simple as taking her to a state school. So I think there should be some sort of means testing or concessions when it comes to adding this 20%VAT. And lets be honest, they are never going to use the full tax gained from the added VAT and inject it into schools. Rich people may not be as affected, but what about the people like me? Who is trying her best to provide for her child, and making a real difference to people's lives through my job!

Funny. You think I would be leaping at the idea of making state school parents pay, given that I wouldn't be the one paying.

Instead, I have agreed with the proposal of a wealth tax, which may or may not affect me, depending on how the policy might be drawn up and where any thresholds might be set.

Failing that, I would rather just tax higher earners more to help fund state education...including myself.

But you still won't get it.

Why on earth should someone unemployed or on a low income have to pay £3,000 a year per child because their nearest school happens to be outstanding? I think ideas like this show how little most people know about the state education system in this country. There are outstanding schools in all parts of the country. They're not all attended solely by rich people's kids. Most people want all schools in the country to be outstanding so that this debate does not even need to take place.

The tax is intended to raise money, but I imagine it's also intended to be a somewhat of a disincentive, rather like fines for non ULEZ compliant cars. Where I live in London, some private school fees have nearly tripled in the last 15 years, one school from 12,000 a year to £33,000 a year now. Most people in the country can't afford anything like that anyway, so for most people the debate is somewhat irrelevant.

It is possible to disagree with something that you don't envy. I think we should be striving to achieve a school system where private schools are not automatically seen as better and where everyone has a much more equal chance of going to the same great school, whatever their parents do and wherever they live.

I’m giving my opinion on this tax and how to fund state education. I’m more likely to apply the term socially minded to my own behaviour if I pay not if others do.

If you feel differently I don’t see it but that’s fine

In answer to the OP I don't think the burseries came in for Reigate Grammar until he was going into the sixth form so a change probably would not have been too disruptive. I can't remember if Oxted County had a sixth form then, but you could always get the train up to Croydon and beyond. Hope this helps.

As I always say on threads like this, I am in favour of fair banding, a ballot and school buses.

Good point -I missed out only if you pass the 11 plus but if you’re in the catchment and pass you’re in!

@Jonesthebootmaker "Good point -I missed out only if you pass the 11 plus but if you’re in the catchment and pass you’re in!"

Sorry- you have to add "if there are spaces".!

Can you answer this please .

Sorry- you have to add "if there are spaces".!
Exactly...

Well, I'm sure your analysis of your own behaviour is all absolutely fascinating, but I'm more interested in talking about social policy personally. And the point I'm trying to make is that my opinions on social policy are not based on my own personal circumstances. If they were, I suppose I wouldn't comment on education threads at all any more as I no longer have children in school, but I happen to think it's rather important for our society as a whole.

Ha at this dig.

No I just can’t see anyone arguing for other people to pay as getting to say how socially minded they are

I apply it to myself and others so there’s no discrepancy

If people want the tag they have to actually do something like pay. Not demand it of others

I know you disagree and use it anyway. There you go we have different views.

If you do end up paying the wealth tax you’re after then enjoy

Can we possibly just agree that @MrsBennetsPoorNerves and @EasternStandard are each hugely morally superior to the other, and move on? 😅

Shh, don't tell anyone that Ofsted Outstanding does not mean that the school will be any good for any given student or indeed any of its students.

Kier would have done well whatever school he went to. I have one child in a superselective grammar, another in a bog standard comp. The difference in outcome is in the children, not the schools. If they want to do well and work hard, they will.

I also think that most children are very resilient and adapt well to change. We'd probably have 1 or 2 kids leave and join our class every year. So over 5 years that's up to a 1/3rd changing schoools. Their results weren't noticeably better or worse than anyone else.

Refugees leave their country ,their schools, their language and culture behind, create a new life in another country and they still manage to get First Class degrees in top universities. I am sure any private school children who have to move will do fine too.

Lol 😂

I’m not that morally superior I am laughing at how much people don’t want my money

Fine by me

This can't possibly be true, if it was surely all those people saving by going without Sky TV wouldn't send their children to private school.

I think the advantages that people want from private schools are mainly social rather than educational

You're the one that keeps using the phrase "socially minded". And I don't need a tag, thanks.

As far as I'm concerned, this isn't about me. It is about the kind of society we want to create. I'm sorry that you can't see that and that you keep bringing it back to individuals, but we're just going round in circles now. As I said above, our values are too far apart to find any common ground.

“Shh, don't tell anyone that Ofsted Outstanding does not mean that the school will be any good for any given student or indeed any of its students.“

I have 4 DC who went to Ofsted outstanding schools both at primary and secondary and it seems to have worked well for them. And I would pay for it, if I had to.
Nobody who has children on FSM would have to pay, obviously.

People move into catchment or tutor for grammar for the social advantage as well. It is no different to private schools. In fact, I think we are getting a far better financial deal as we do not need to pay at all - that is why I would be willing to contribute.

Wealth taxes that are properly implemented cost a huge amount to administer because every person has to fill in a full tax statement as if they were a company.
In this country, the simplest tax would be taxing all inheritances and taxing housing wealth as that is where most people have stashed their cash.

I don’t agree with this take but yep I think it takes actually paying more not just others doing so. Including my own payments

There you go we’re all different