If you are a teacher, would you still do it without the TPS?

[TraceyDeacy]

I have just seen that United Learning are going to offer alternative pension schemes to the TPS in their academies.

If you are a teacher, would you ever opt out of the TPS?

Technically the money isn’t ring fenced, I guess, but they did need to rejig it to make sure it was sustainable.

I was a staff pension rep at a school that went through a consultation to leave TPS (an independent school). We brokered a compromise where (although they will eventually leave, I'm sure) staff already in TPS could cover the increased contributions as an interim.

Something I was not aware of before being a rep is that moving to a private pension scheme (any private defined contribution scheme) involves the person joining it making active decisions on how their "pot" will be invested and if they don't make those active decisions, the default settings could not be great. Plus different schemes charge different fees and those can add up to huge differences over time. Plus while TPS has a gender pay gap just like teaching itself (partly due to the impact of maternity leaves), this is more extreme in a private pension system. Plus some private schemes don't cover ill health retirement. And many other things -- which a lot of teachers are in a poor position to think about, never having had to do a lot of active pension planning because TPS is more or less you get what it says on the tin.

I would strongly urge anyone in a situation where their school is seeking a pension change to get their own independent advice from somewhere trustworthy like Wesleyan.

I'm not a teacher but worked in HR in education for decades. These employers are definitely risking getting the dregs in terms of quality of staff. I would not work there as a HR professional and I guess most teachers would feel the same.

Yes-TP grant has cost us over £15k at the small primary school I work at. It’s based on £ per child, not the actual cost of the increase.

we’re full-and if all of our teachers had been NQTs it would have been ok-but we’ve got a mix of experience and so the grant leaves us short. Basically the cost of a TA…

So whilst I hate academisation, I can see why a MAT might try and wriggle out of the TPS?

Absolutely not, and I'll look to move as we have had a particularly bad dispute caused by a particularly low offer. If you read the union indy sector newsletters then you'll have seen us.

We are now on the slippery slope where DC contributions are in the teens and those staying in TPS won't get a pay rise until hell freezes over.

A contribution in the teens still sounds high to some parents, but it's x% of less than £50k, not x% of a salary that's paying nearly £20k in school fees

@Sewingmachine1 , will you move to another school local to you that does offer TPS instead then? Unless there is a mass of vacancies, where will everyone go if they are like minded? Round our way the last indie has just pulled out, there was talk of leaving and strike action, but in the end staff didn’t go anywhere, as they saw the 20-something-% offer as better than everywhere else (including leaving the profession, where you’ll be lucky to get 15% as a lawyer) - unless they went state of course, which would mean not necessarily teachings one’s subject any more, just plugging the gaps.

its a genuine question, as I see this fight as a worthy one, but how is it won.

@PanicStationsEveryone the things you are saying are quite difficult to engage with.

The average lawyer on a 15% employer contribution doesn’t compare with the average teacher salary + TPS. It is an impossible comparison.

Most independent schools are still in the TPS.

It is also not difficult to find a teaching job at the moment, and teaching in the state sector does not mean plugging the gaps - why would it?

Plenty of independent schools have fought their school’s pension proposals and have won. It all depends on the resolve of your staff.

For the maintained sector, you have to fight this collectively. And you need to get informed and be prepared. There’s no ‘I’m all right, Jack’ option with the TPS - we all need to be enrolled in it for it to work - don’t let short termism or overpaid MAT executives disrupt this essential right of our profession.

@PanicStationsEveryone I'll move back to the state sector. I'm primary and with half a dozen years to go would be happy to do so. We have double digits leaving this summer which is unheard of. Most secondary colleagues are going into the state sector, though one is going to another local indie which pays a lot more.

Our original offer was less than 15% and we were told we'd bankrupt the school by asking for more and going on strike to get it. Both turned out to be untrue. The final deal isn't great, I voted against and it definitely wasn't unanimous, but it's the deal we've got and people will act according to their needs.

I have always taught in the state system. There are no independent schools around us that I could teach in. I've just googled and the nearest indy school is over an hour's drive away, so I'm not interested anyway - but if they don't have TPS I would instantly dismiss any vacancy in any independent school. I wouldn't even bother apply.

There are plenty of vacancies in state schools around. Take away the TPS from schools and you'll never recruit.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/united-learnings-alternative-pension-plan-the-lawyers-views/

I just saw this! So helpful- well done, School’s Week! Essential reading for all teachers.

We have 5 indies in a 30 min radius of us. Mix of prep and through schools. 4 are not in the TPS and never seem to have issues recruiting.

A friend is a teacher at the girls school included above, she moved from a local state to teach chemistry at the indie girls. She moved for other benefits, both cash and life/work-style improvements. We've spoken about pension before, for her it didn't feature as a deal breaker, seemed more interested in a better work environment and more pay in the 'now'.

Interestingly, that article above shows how ill-informed teachers can be about the value of their TPS. No financial advisor will suggest that you leave the TPS - it would be in breach of their regulations to pretend that there are better options out there.

@FruityLoopie How can you possibly know about the recruitment situation for all these schools around you?

Most teachers don’t even know about the recruitment situation in their own schools - it varies hugely from department to department.

And there are no schools—at all—that are not reporting concerns around retention and recruitment in teaching. With or without the TPS, teaching is an increasingly unattractive deal (but the answer is probably not to make the deal worse for those people that you are retaining).

I'm a Compliance Manager, and in a previous life worked in a large West London C-ed independent school, before that a Prep. I now work for a transport company, as it's all I could get with a house move 18 months ago. Im looking to get back into education and spend a lot of time on the websites of the school's in our area looking for vacancies and have alerts set up on the TES. I never see any rolling adverts for teachers and those parents who I know at 3 of these schools never complain of teachers leaving all the time. Of course the situation will differ by areas etc. Etc.

My point though was that people do having differing views on the TPS, and I didn't mean to poke your wasps nest by implying that some people actually do think differently to yourself on this. People have differing opinions on what a better deal is for them too, especially the younger workforce, who want cash now or other benefits - unlike oldies like me with multiple, decent pensions and owning our homes, now worth £500k but bought in the 70s for £65k...

Apologies if I caused a stirr. But I do believe people have different views on it - and you do, with great respect, seem to shoot other views down.

Our indie school was taken out 5 years ago. At the time, our union wasn’t fighting for indie schools to keep their pensions though they’ve changed their tune since then. Too late for us. I don’t recall us ever being told about ‘choosing’ where the money is being invested? Our scheme is through Aviva. Looks like I need to do some more research!

@FruityLoopie I don’t take offence at what you are saying, but if your opinions aren’t informed ones, then don’t be surprised if they are challenged. Why wouldn’t they be?

But I will happily question anyone who perpetuates the narrative that teachers will get more pay by choosing a DC scheme. This hasn’t worked out where it is happening in the independent sector. If the school want to give more pay to struggling teachers through a DC scheme, then they need to match the employer contribution of the TPS and offer flexiblility on the employee contribution. Otherwise, it is ‘divide and rule’, and an excuse to keep pay awards low for everyone.

If United Learning try to split pay awards, then that is a serious threat to your future earnings, and the teachers involved need to fight it for themselves and on behalf of the profession.

If you feel that you are kicking a wasps’ nest @FruityLoopie then I am glad. Teachers don’t stand up for themselves enough, and our children are paying for it.

@42isthemeaning you won't be able to choose exactly what the money's invested in but there are default options for levels of risk and fees that you should be aware of. Basically get a copy of the scheme details and look it over with someone like Wesleyan (I didn't have to pay for my appointment with them).

The Schoolweek article's really interesting.

As a pensions rep, I found getting informed consent was very problematic. A lot of teachers don't know much at all about financial services. Would be surprising if they did, I suppose.

We were offered independent financial advice by our school. While nothing they told us was actually incorrect, I had a much fuller picture once I'd spoken to Wesleyan.