If you are a teacher, would you still do it without the TPS?

[TraceyDeacy]

I have just seen that United Learning are going to offer alternative pension schemes to the TPS in their academies.

If you are a teacher, would you ever opt out of the TPS?

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/united-learning-to-offer-45k-starting-salaries-by-offering-alternative-pension/

This is the article.

Yes, I do. I work in an independent school that came out of it a few years ago and the one I was in before then came out too. I enjoy my job and there are enough perks that I didn’t want to move schools purely for the pension. Plus half the local independent schools around me have already or are in consultation.

Not in a state school. No way would I do it without TPS.
Independent - maybe if there were enough other benefits.

This is very interesting as the TPS is unfunded so if lots of a academies follow this idea, the funding for current pensions will still have to be found.

No, I wouldn’t. The only reason I’m still teaching is the pension. But I wouldn’t work for an academy chain either.

Yeah me also. I retired 3 years ago. Really glad l had my TP. Wouldn’t have considered teaching without it.

Sadly, as I am on supply, I have no access to the TPS. I would dearly love to be able to still contribute but it is not open to us. It used to be, when local authorities ran their own supply pools, but now it's all handled by the private sector, this benefit has been taken from us.

Uniform except a few years at a trendy London school with no uniform .... which now has one!

Will academies begin withdrawing from the TPS as has happened in the private sector?

@TraceyDeacy, for the next year the teachers pension grant is funding TPS for academies. In the long term there is always uncertainty. What has caught the whole state sector out this year is that the way the TP grant has been calculated in the payment to schools does not cover the actual cost per school, someone else can explain why buts it's left a hole in school budgets across the U.K.

You seem very invested in this topic, are you a teacher?

It's optional though, and there may well be young teachers who would prefer the pay to the pension in the short term. The way things are going the retirement age will be 100 by the time they get to it so I can see it would be tempting.

A lot of people don't teach for very long,

I know a lot of career changers who moved into it after having a more highly paid job.

I personally worked in education for twenty years and I don't actually know how much pension I'm entitled to. So it didn't impact my decisions.

I suspect fewer and fewer people will stay in teaching their whole career so it becomes less relevant to their decisions (ie only one of two or three workplace pensions)

Yes. I am a teacher in a school that has just been on strike and succeeded in keeping the TPS so, yes, I am also quite invested in the topic.

I believe that United Learning withdrew their alternative pension proposals for their independent schools when teachers balloted to strike.

Academy staff shouldn’t sleepwalk into these changes, just as independent school staff shouldn’t (and, in many cases, haven’t).

Oops wrong thread sorry

@TraceyDeacy , United Learning have kept TPS for staff employed at the time of negotiation and have a new option for new staff. I worked in the private school sector in SW London and the younger staff really don't mind not having TPS, it's not on their radar, instead they would prefer to pay a smaller contribution and have more salary to pay the rent. In Greater London cost of living v teaching salaries is a bigger challenger in recruitment.

That’s quite an assertion @redrobin75 We found that, once teachers looked at the finer detail of a DB vs DC scheme, they almost all opted to stick with the DB scheme.

Surely pay needs to be better if young teachers are feeling forced to give up their TPS?

I absolutely wouldn't but I can see why some might

Interesting.

The article says "For teachers contributing nothing towards their pension and getting 10 per cent from their employer, this would equate to a 15 per cent salary uplift."

I can see that that would be very attractive for young teachers and help them to get on the property market more quickly. I suspect my teacher daughter would have jumped at it. It would probably be worth doing for the first few years of your career.

Obviously much less attractive for older teachers though. A friend of mine (in her 50s) is a teacher. For the last 10 years or so she has been working in an independent school but they came out of the TPS and she is back to the state sector in September. The TPS is not the only reason, but it's one of them.

Sadly, it was this innocuous proposal of ‘choice’ that began a culture of pay cuts and phased withdrawal of the TPS in the independent sector.

Once you normalise opting out, it is harder for those remaining to defend their right to stay in the TPS.

Any proposal to offer an alternative pension to the TPS should be very closely scrutinised. And don’t opt out without talking to a financial advisor (who will tell you to stay in the TPS).

No.

The pay and working conditions are poor for the qualifications you have, the skills you need and the stress and workload that is piled on you. One of the benefits is the TPS.

If you took that away I wouldn't teach any longer. I'm actually just retiring, but I would have answered the same in my 30s. Probably not in my early 20s, but I was younger and dumber then.

As a pp said, the drop out rate for the first three years is so high that possibly some people, straight off a PGCE, will take it. But you'll struggle to recruit experienced teachers without it.

Absolutely not. The TPS is one of the reasons I went into teaching and would be very wary of any other schemes. What is the academy’s reasoning for offering a different service?

No.

Interesting that they are doing this, but if the plan works, in my mind it will certainly attract more newly qualified or younger teachers. No one joining the work force really these days thinks about their pension, most just need to survive the ‘now’, have some disposable income and aspire to owning a house…. I minimised my pension to begin with, as far down as it would go, so I could save for a house deposit, it was great to have the flexibility. I’m not a teacher.

Although not relevant to the OP, someone mentioned independent schools. I can fully expect and understand (non-cash rich) a lot more indies to start pulling from the TPS, with falling rolls, business rates and VAT on fees (even though not confirmed yet), it will be either save some money or go bust.

I for one am entirely for a great teacher pension benefit, teachers should be rewarded. But that recent jump from 22% to 28%(?), is insane and very unaffordable for most schools.

For a medium sized independent school, with 100 staff, some article I read reckoned the increase alone would cost the school an additional £400k per year. That’s just not sustainable, no matter how much people are historically wedded to the pension, surely everyone will realise that soon…

by all means though, if you’re at Eaton, go on strike.

it will be either save some money or go bust.

Teachers in this situation need to learn how to read their school’s accounts. Our school certainly wasn’t about to go bust —far from it. The choice to inflict pay cuts if you wanted to keep your pension was opportunist (and it relied on us believing that we were saving the school by quietly accepting the proposal - we didn’t).

No one joining the work force really these days thinks about their pension, most just need to survive the ‘now’, have some disposable income and aspire to owning a house

These arguments rely on the premise that you will get paid more if you give up your TPS. It isn’t playing out like that in the independent sector. Where you have staff on different deals, it has become impossible to properly negotiate pay awards because you have lost the power of collective bargaining.

And the TPS tracks inflation (and the contributions are fixed by the TPS). Let a school decide on DC contributions and you will watch those decline to nothing in a short time.

So: poor pay and poor pension await the ‘young’ (who in my experience, did not opt for the DC when it was offered - largely because they were sufficiently informed—as teachers should be—to see it as a bad deal).

But that recent jump from 22% to 28%(?), is insane and very unaffordable for most schools.

This valuation occurred at a point when the value of gilts was low. A re-valuation is likely to happen shortly, and it would be in the government’s interest to bring down the contributions.

For a medium-sized independent school, with 100 staff, some article I read reckoned the increase alone would cost the school an additional £400k per year.

For independent schools, you have to look case-by-case. This really isn’t an enormous sum for many schools who have still used it as a lever to worsen the terms and conditions of their teachers. Harrow and Eton have entered into phased withdrawal, I believe, - their staff should have fought that, because there is surely no business case for it, but it green lights the rest of the sector to follow.

That’s just not sustainable, no matter how much people are historically wedded to the pension, surely everyone will realise that soon…

Teachers will simply move out of teaching, or not join at all.

When we went on strike, people called us ‘turkeys voting for Christmas.’ But we are not a captive sub-class. We can all leave for better paid jobs in completely different careers if we need to, and most of us are conscious of what our peers are earning: with hybrid and remote working, bonuses and above-inflation pay-rises.

And where will this leave schools? And our children?

Our independent is a decent size, doing pretty well, but has recently withdrawn. Teachers were broadly on side, there was no strike action. The school made a surplus of around £800k a year, but kept fee increases relatively low to attract students, whilst raising salaries to keep up with inflation. But with busines rate relief ending, £350k (number cited) going on the extra pensions costs, the surplus was almost wiped out. This would mean very little, to no money, for the charity to reinvest further in education, facilities, bursaries, etc., etc.

I was pleased the teachers accepted the deal they were offered, they do a great job and I think they still ended up with 21% DC scheme. Which is a lot.

I know it's never popular when anything is taken away, I've certainly had to defend a number of my perks and benefits in my time! BUT, it's worth noting that amongst our parent community though, there was very, very, little support for strike action, which I think the staff felt. We're not an Eton school, just hard working middle class parents of the 700 or so kids. We all work hard very hard, and although teachers do have a really tough job, so do we... and like the PP said, we all have choice. I can move jobs too if I don't feel I'm rewarded enough for my work. So maybe more teachers will indeed find themselves moving jobs to keep their TPS for as long as possible.

I earn about the same as most of the teachers earn at my DCs school, from the school accounts, and given in my industry (law) and my husband's industry (engineering), we both top out at c.15% employer pension contributions - as does the rest of the parent community; thus support for 27.5% was naturally lacking amongst parents.

It's an interesting conundrum, and I wish everyone the best of luck with whatever plays out on this one in both the state, academy trust and independent sectors.