If you are a teacher, would you still do it without the TPS?

[TraceyDeacy]

I have just seen that United Learning are going to offer alternative pension schemes to the TPS in their academies.

If you are a teacher, would you ever opt out of the TPS?

I would add that the independent school I work in has not had any problem attracting good teachers since they came out of TPS. Same with my DH’s school in a different town.

The TPS is unfunded, so it relies on the teaching profession being enrolled in it. Removing staff will precipitate its collapse.

The consequences of removing it go much further than anecdotal evidence that some teachers don’t mind not having the TPS and some schools don’t have a recruitment problem.

There is a national teacher recruitment and retention crisis in this country. The TPS has been used in recent years to mitigate poor pay and poor working conditions for teachers.

It shouldn’t be taken for granted.

@TraceyDeacy , perhaps the lure of a pension scheme such as the TPS isn’t doing the miracle recruitment job we all once thought then. Like a PP said and me too, I recall, most graduates, younger workers, and similar (including my peers and I at the dizzy age of our mid 30s!) are still looking to maximise daily disposable income.

Changing ones TPS into a flexible DC scheme may seem scary, but maybe the extra money in the pocket is better for some.

the fundamental recruitment issues isn’t around benefits as I see it, I know more money is always welcome!, but more around how underfunded the sector is, specifically state, and just how hard one has to work to push custard up hill.

if the government fixed state education, and also behaviour / social issues, I would hope the job would appeal to more.

The TPS is simply unaffordable. It’s unaffordable by state schools, it’s unaffordable by the government, it’s unaffordable by most independent schools.

Its simply a black hole. Who’s to say that in the near future the scheme doesn’t collapse anyway and everyone’s pensions, past and present are lost or reduced.

There are plenty of examples of black hole, old style, huge pensions going wrong. Which is why the TPS is one of the last remaining dinosaurs.

In fact, it’s pretty obvious that those in the 50s or less, will likely see their monthly contributions simply paying the pensions of those who have already retired on the scheme, and not much, if any benefit for themselves when the time comes for them.

Teachers in schools who have lost the TPS do not report being paid better. It’s consistently the opposite.

Schools that manage to do this to their staff, devalue the profession. And no teacher is going to save their school by giving up their pay and pension.

Teacher pension contributions do pay the pensions of those currently retired, that’s how the scheme works. It’s not teachers putting money in a pot for their future retirement.

It’s too expensive for many schools, especially if the funding for schools doesn’t cover this expense (like many things it doesn’t cover). Many schools are making redundancies. Better to have a job and different pension, or no job and have TPS.

But what would happen if many academies opt out? Especially as the direction of travel is for all schools to be academies

Agreed PP.

It’s a tough world out there at the moment. But one thing everyone has is choice. If you don’t want to fight for a schools survival long term, by aligning one’s benefits a modicum towards the rest of the populations’, then it’s absolutely the right choice to go work elsewhere. The problem is, you won’t find a pensions anywhere near 20% outside of education, let alone 27.

Some things are just simply unaffordable these days, and by the look of it the TPS was always unaffordable, which is why alll these types of schemes have been closed, bailed out to the tune of billions, or gone bust into pension protection.

It would be a disaster for the profession if academies came out.

Teachers should be very wary of this narrative that the TPS is unaffordable. Teachers need to value themselves on this. Our pay growth in recent years has been way below inflation and average UK earnings. And this has already affected our pensions.

The TPS is underwritten by the government, it tracks inflation, it offers a death-in-service grant for dependents and early retirement through ill-health benefits.

Don’t give it away because better paid people in other professions don’t think you should have it. And don’t give it away because high-earners within your own profession don’t think you should have it.

We need to value ourselves on this.

@TraceyDeacy then it needs to be fully funded for state schools.

But many organisations have had to change their pension schemes as they were just not affordable.

My school sounds very similar to yours and after a ballot threatening strike action we kept the TPS. School offers an alternative pension with concomitant higher salary but very few people have taken this up. I think the TPS is really important and while I wouldn’t have left my school I’m in my late 50s and so have a decent chunk now. Our SLT realised how strongly staff feel about it and have made savings elsewhere.

How long ago was that?

I think with VAT, business rates and the cost of inflation on salaries, more will come out of the scheme soon. Round my way only 1 of the 5 local independents are still in - and they're on the way out soon too I bet. We are Surrey based.

Most schools also have no where else to save money on, they're already very efficient.

Most schools aren't afraid of strike action either these days, so many schools have been through this, there are cost benefit analysis, strategies and consultants galore who will all point to strike action being short term pain, for long term gain, and just accept it as part of the journey to exiting the TPS. Very similar to other industries, where all us non teachers are now maxing out at 12-15% employer contributions.

Also, its governor lead, not SLT or Headteacher led - both of which will be loosing their TPS too. So don't ever blame the school leadership.

Sadly, although I agree this is a great benefit, it is blatantly, clearly and absolutely obvious that the scheme is no longer viable and schools will need to come out to survive. Even the constant hanging sword of the TPS, not knowing what way, or what ridiculous percentage it will go up to next year, is enough to cause financial issues for schools, let alone any business.

There’s every chance that the employer contribution will go down @FruityLoopie. A new valuation is imminent.

So don't ever blame the school leadership.

It’s not really that simple.

Many school leaders have executive and strategic functions in their role. Headteachers are also among a small group in both maintained and independent sectors where salaries have risen above inflation, some to extraordinary highs - their ‘total reward’ packages are not representative of the average teacher. MAT heads are also not always entitled to the TPS if they are not based on schools.

But you actually don’t need to blame anyone. As a teacher, we need to recognise the value of what we have and stand up for it. If we say that the TPS doesn’t matter to us, we will lose it.

@TraceyDeacy but the employer contribution is such a high percentage compared to many other pension schemes

It is an unfunded defined benefit pension scheme.

It is revalued every four years. The last two valuations saw employer contributions jump, considerably, because of the low value of gilts at the time of valuation.

The next valuation may see employer contributions go down and back to more acceptable levels. It would certainly be in the government’s interest to make this happen.

What would be a mistake is if individual teachers, or whole academy chains, pull out of the TPS, because that would be an existential threat to the scheme.

We need to look after our profession and work collectively to protect its pension.

It's that unfunded uncertainty that creates half the issue for schools, will it go up? Will it go down? Will we run in the black this year? Or will we post a deficit and have to eat into our limited reserves? It's a mess of a scheme and frankly the employer contributions are grossly disproportionate compared to the rest of the country and pretty much every other 'professional' profession.

By all means standing up for it is the right thing to do, should you wish. But running a business with that sort of uncertainty is madness and people need to accept that side of the argument too. I'm pretty certain schools aren't going through a crappy consultation, potential strike action, and all the bad press to-boot, just for fun - the TPS is a very real threat to the run of the mill independent school, and the kids that attend them.

How can any school cope with the potential of a fluctuation in costs of £350-400k per year based on gilt prices? Insane.

@FujiMountain it’s not just independent schools. A number of MATS are teetering on the brink, already having to make redundancies

If you don’t want to fight for a schools survival long term, by aligning one’s benefits a modicum towards the rest of the populations’, then it’s absolutely the right choice to go work elsewhere.

If you can read your school’s accounts, then you know whether your school can afford to pay the increase for the current valuation (and for VAT on fees etc). It’s lazy to suggest that all schools will shut because of the change in employer contributions, and that teachers should give away their DB pensions to save their school. It really is case-by-case for the independent sector.

I thought it went into general taxation, and the government paid the current retired teachers (like civil service pensions). Although that is like splitting hairs.

I most definitely would leave teaching if there was no more pension. It's the only perk left, and saying that, I looked at my pension statement lately and was surprised at how low it was after 15 years teaching.

It seems from the outside as if other organisations like the civil service have better wages but an alright pension so perhaps a better balance for those needing to get on the property ladder.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the civil service have an employer contribution of 28.97%.

It is underwritten by the government @scissy , but it is an unfunded pension scheme. Current contributions pay for those in retirement. The model relies on the enrolment of current teachers.

What is a TPS?

It is the Teachers’ Pension Scheme.

This explains it well.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/is-teaching-right-for-me/what-pension-does-a-teacher-get