Managed out of independent

[gentileschi]

My 5 year old son is being managed out of his independent school, we effectively have 2.5 weeks to get something for Sept or come up with home ed plan. Any advise on how to navigate this? My son has an ASD diagnosis with PDA profile. He is not a school refuser and is up, washed and not in burn out or anything which is all I see advise for on pda sites. He just won't do anything he doesn't want to or isn't interested in. He is bright curious and interested in the world, his learning is coming along steadily. I can't see any places at any school let alone consider if he would fit there. Can online learning work at 5 years old? Is there a home education governing body? Who is supposed to look after us? Can you give advice on what I should be doing?

https://pdaparenting.com/2020/03/10/how-to-find-the-right-school/

Exactly.

OP

You are doing a good job and your son sounds lovely.

He's on part time because they can't cope, he's fine. He's giving them the run around because he's demand avoidant and it's a demanding school. They've decided to boot him out rather than continue to support him. We've discussed paying for help on top of full school fees for 2.5hours that they do have him but they would obviously rather him go. I think he needs more play and autonomy until he's a little older.

I fear he's in danger of them putting more pressure on so he gets so dis-regulated he does do something he can be expelled for. Clearly if I am thinking like this the trust has completely gone and I need to move him asap. I think they have done a lot for him and been brilliant. They have some truly great staff but his head of year is a real weak point and where the dishonesty and distrust stems from.

Obviously I didn't know about my son's needs when I signed him up to the schools nursery! I have another child in the foundation who has thrived but she's not pda!

@sashh thank you, it's a tough gig but my son is extremely rewarding and definitely going to be a change maker.

@gentileschi have you had any paperwork at all from your Local Authority about the EHCP process? If the school has applied for an EHC Needs Assessment, you should have had a letter telling you that a request had been made and setting out the legal timeframe for a decision on whether the LA are going to proceed to assess.

If you have not had such a letter, then your child is not in the process for an EHCP. In which case, you need to apply yourself. You have some really strong evidence - he is diagnosed with ASD, so he fulfils the criteria that he has (or may have) SEN, and he isn't accessing full-time education and has been asked to leave his current school (which shows that he may need the provision of an EHC Plan).

DO NOT HOME EDUCATE. Your child deserves to be given an appropriate education in a setting that will help him to flourish.

I have 3 children with EHCPs - you will get there.

@Lougle I've had confirmation the the school are applying by the end of term, Their reassurance that they could get it done by the end of term was incorrect and they have apologised and agreed to keep him until he has a place elsewhere, whatever that might be. I now need to rush a meet with his year 1 teacher so she understands PDA and him which was supposed to be done ages ago. What a disaster, the new teacher isn't going to be ready at all now. I think they just thought they could shove him out quickly but it just doesn't work like that.

Either way, I need to focus on moving forward not what's not working.

If the school hasn't applied for an EHCP within the next couple of weeks, do it yourself. It might be an idea to do that anyway so that you know exactly when the application went in (as subsequent deadlines are calculated from that date) and can keep control of the process.

@gentileschi

OP

Would you be able to ring Social Services at your local authority today to get further guidance on the EHCP which he needs?

I'm worried that things are going to go to the wire for you if you don't touch base with them this week.

If an EHCNA hasn’t even been requested yet, you should make the request yourself ASAP. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

The process will take 20 weeks and that is if you don’t have to appeal, enforce the timescales, and the LA doesn’t try to try on the limited exceptions to the timescales that can sometimes apply in the summer holidays, so the request should be submitted ASAP.

Don’t take advice about EHCPs from social care. LAs often give incorrect advice.

PDA can be very challenging and requires specialist knowledge to manage. Is he physically challenging when at school?

What's the timescale for a judicial review if it becomes necessary?

I think that claims for a Judicial Review have to be brought within three months of the relevant decision as a rule.

@user149799568 if the LA fails to adhere to the statutory timescales and chasing the LA hasn’t worked, you need a pre-action letter. How long getting a pre-action letter sent depends on long as it takes you to find someone to write it. SOSSEN has a long wait, but if you find someone else, it could be a couple weeks to a month. Pre-action letters mostly work, especially for failure to comply with EHCP timescales, but if they don’t and you need to look at pursuing JR itself SOSSEN explains the timescales here under ‘isn’t JR really slow?’. Quicker to provide the link than explain the process/timescales. It is much quicker than waiting for months and months on end, sometimes well over a year, for the LA to pull their finger out.

I think you need to be prepared for them to rescind his place if he's being physically violent toward staff or children. A private school absolutely can refuse to have him.

A friend's daughter who has autism with a PDA profile was in local authority mainstream and after gaining an EHCP and after a protracted appeal process with the local authority is now at a private Priory social, emotional mental health school. It has class sizes of about 6 and is very bespoke to each pupil. She did present as physically challenging and could actually be pretty intimidating (as a 7 year old!) to adults.

There will be. The council is obliged to find a education solution for your child

I don't think
a) people can sensibly comment without insight into the behaviour that the school are struggling with & some kind of background that knows what schools would ‘usually’ do to support
b) lump all private schools as ‘rubbish with SEN’ (or any other sweeping statements about all state or private schools)

our ds has had brilliant SEN support from his independent schools to date. One of those schools asked one child with ASD/PDA to leave the school a while back, they were injuring staff and pupils due to physical aggression when stressed and the school didn’t manage to change that behaviour and felt they couldn’t meet his needs. That school has supported various other dc with SEND of various types, at least one of whom was in one of my ds’ form and was mildly disruptive for quite a while until they found how to best support him.

I would suggest you proceed with the EHCP, get on lists for any schools you want and try to think that your ds might learn better in an different environment, you just have to figure out exactly what that looks like.

OP an independent mainstream can and will force a child out. If they are not keeping up with their peers. As they can just say can’t meet need good bye.

Next year more demands will be on him too - the higher / older they are the worse it gets for a pda child regarding education. As they have to WANT to do it or they are not. Plus the whole anxiety levels too to manage.

I hope that your yr1 teacher is nice and your boy likes him - it can be the making and the breaking.

I strongly advise you to apply for an EHCP yourself. Also, depending on your cash flow situation you might want to get yourself on waiting lists of private people EP, Salt, OT especially if you end up in a tribunal (you don’t need to do that but you will end up with better reports) plus the OT if sensory trained will pick up on lots of other things like noise etc

The EHCP process is supposed to take 20 weeks but honestly it’s generally rubbish and you need to go to a tribunal. Plus LA never give you what they are supposed to and it costs you again.

You might want to give these books to your teacher / senco

The Educator’s Experience of Pathological Demand Avoidance: An Illustrated Guide to Pathological Demand Avoidance and Learning laura kirby

Clare Truman
The Teacher's Introduction to Pathological Demand Avoidance: Essential Strategies for the Classroom

Other people I like to follow Eliza Fricker, N fisher, Heidi Mavir

If you really want him in the independent mainstream - costs a lot but could you pay for a 1 to 1 until the EHCP comes through.

However if he was to do well in the independent mainstream and you went to a tribunal you could try to name the school and then it’s free! (So good to have professional reports for evidence)

Good luck for year 1

Thank you for all the comments and replies. I can't answer all the questions directly right now.

As an update, I'll remove my son from school tomorrow as there's no plan for any of us to meet the year 1 teacher or see his class room etc. He can't move forward like that and they clearly want rid of us.

I can't possibly get a school place that I'll know is suitable in a rush but I've been given the confidence to move forward into the unknown and find an exact fit in our own time. It's a horrible situation and my son deserved much better.

Really trying to put the horrid parts behind us and move forward with excitement and open minds.

It is still worth applying for a state place. You can go through the process then discuss your ds needs with the Sendco of the allocated school which may highlight the appropriate provision and support for the ehcp

@gentileschi

The situation sounds quite worrying to me.

Could you ring the nearest Social Services to ask about an EHC Plan for him? It doesn't sound as though there is one and I think that there needs to be one.

https://www.gov.uk/children-with-special-educational-needs/extra-SEN-help

I've a sen consultant writing one now, I've spoken to the council admissions dept (who were disgusted) and are coming back to me.

social services won’t be able to advise on ehcp’s, it will be the Sen department with children and family services