When to invest most in children’s education?

[Internationalpony]

It’s a huge amount to invest to pay for nannies and private schools throughout DC’s lives and not affordable for many people.

So, at what stage of education do you think you get the best return on investment? If you had to make a choice, at what stage do you think it’s worth investing most in your DC’s education:

• Paying for a nanny from 12 months until going to school (given the importance of pre-school years)
• Prep school from age 5-11
• Independent secondary school from age 11-18

Which do you think impacts most on long term outcomes for children?

I’d especially love to hear from people who have DC who have been through one of the above or anyone with knowledge of child development.

Depends on the child I think.

We only have 1 (DD in year 6)

I was fortunate to be able to stay home with her before she started school and so had lots of 1-2-1 time as well as time at pre school groups.

She then had her free nursery before joining our local, outstanding state primary. (Whilst having additional music lessons outside of school and attending a local dance school.)

It's a 1 form entry and has done her pretty well although she's definitely outgrown it now and is ready to move on.

While academically she's flourished at her primary (as she would have at any as DH and I were both academic children) the damage some of her peers have managed to do to her mental health does sadden us.

She's ND (like myself and DH) and seen as geeky and an easy target.

We looked at all local state schools, none around here have what we think are particularly good exam results and all we've heard horrible bullying stories from.

DD is a hugely talented performer and so along with an academic scholarship has a dance one to a local independent girls school which has made her so proud of herself.

She's been in a few times already for entrance assessments and her transition day and each time she's had the confidence to make new friends and try things she'd never have the confidence to try at her current school even though she's been there 7 years.

Whether her GCSE/ALevel results are going to be much different than if she went to a local state school we'll never know. But I'm about as certain as I can be that she's going to come out a more confident, happy person at the independent school and for us that'll be the best investment we could make.

I’d say go for private secondary.

In primary school a good state one will do, because kids are generally nice and innocent and like to please their teachers and parents. The learning doesn’t need to be challenging.

In contrast, teens can go off the rails more easily and rebel against parents so it’s better to get them in a peer group that want to do well academically. The learning is more complicated and benefits from more resources.

It's an interesting question as I am a big believer in early years and so my gut would be around a very stable and enriching start to life. But I actually think that parents themselves can do much of that and it doesn't need to be expensive.

I also feel state infant and primary schools seem generally nice enough and generally suit to more children than not, although there are variations.

I feel like state secondaries are great for some children but it seems to be there that more children are unhappy or underachieving or not getting the creative stuff, and there that parents struggle to fill the gap. It's also the bit they actually remember.

It won't be "most people" - it will be about 5% of people- that is the average

at primary, a state school "will do" 😂

We did state til 8 then moved to a school that would prep for 11+ as we wanted a private secondary. State to prep was not an easy move though as she was behind (despite being on track at the state school). I realised the bar is quite low for "on track" at state schools.

I believe it depends on your child and then what’s on offer around you. Some state schools are amazing, some private schools aren’t worth the money and vice versa.

We do state and invest in the extra activities - music, dancing, swimming etc. which allows me to work part time and be around for them and DH to have a flexible job. We have excellent state options and comprehensives at that. (They’re not outstanding but I don’t care about as it’s a tick box exercise.) We would be able to pay for tutoring if we felt it was needed. I prefer state as I feel my DC are getting a much more rounded view of the world but I appreciate I’m in a privileged position to give them ‘state plus.’ If we lived elsewhere with poor state options, I would feel differently.

or they were just being measured differently. Independent schools don't top league tables. People talk as if they are academically better than state schools, but the school league tables, however you view them, are a pretty rough and ready measure of basic achievement. Private schools don't outperform state, even selective private schools a lot of the time.

Private schools do often do the easier and cheaper iGCSE, that might make it look like they have better results if you don't realise.

But saying the bar is lower at states schools is just not true. I don't know why people think it is. Surely, if you just look around you, in whatever sphere you work in, you can see multiple state educated employees who have achieved just as well as the privately educated - there is no over all difference in outcomes.

My 2pworth:

• I took a full year of maternity leave from my rather stressful job; then DS went to the best nursery we could find, and for the next few years I let my career take a back seat so I could be there to collect him, not work in the evening etc.
• Then he went to prep school till 13
• Then he went to a top-flight independent.

He's a lovely, highly successful, well adjusted, undergraduate now (and is literally cooking my supper as I type). I have no regrets about any of these decisions. If I'd had to pick one stage that was most crucial, though, it would be prep school. If he'd had to spend slightly longer hours in nursery and I'd been a bit more frazzled, it would have been worse, but I think not much worse. If as a 13yo he'd gone to a state school he might have had less fun but it would have been fine and he'd have been successful. Prep school was when he got the support to love learning and understand what he was good at and how to improve, and where there were the resources to make sure he was happy (and he was a bit weird so I think he might not have been, with a less nurturing environment!)

ETA cost of private school was a stretch for us - not a money-no-object situation.

Independent schools are over represented in league tables! Look at St Paul’s girls or Wycombe Abbey if you want to see amazing results. Top schools select and are getting top results. A few grammars compare but not that many.

On track is not exceeding. WA girls would be exceeding with bells on. My DD went from state to selective independent and was 4th overall in exams at y7. Had never done French and by y8, she was top. Of course state can educate dc. We are a grammar LA though so if no one was exceeding, those schools would be empty!

It all depends on the child you have and the school options available in your budget and location.

DH and I expected that we would have a child who was the carbon copy of us - a chess playing, academic geek who struggled socially and effortlessly got on the wrong side of every teacher they met. We stressed a lot about how we might be able to afford private schools or if we might need to move to access grammar schools.

Instead we got DD who has a high IQ, severe SEN, zero interest in academics, loads of friends and can wrap most teachers round her little finger. She's very musical and has been focused on that her entire life - other subjects are merely to be endured in her mind.

Her tunnel vision and SEN meant independents and grammars were not an option. Local schools didn't cater for her interests.

Where we have spent a lot of money is on extra curricular music - and when you get to high level in multiple areas/instruments, it can easily hit 5 figure sums a year.

I will never regret a single penny. It's brought her a lot of pleasure (and us as parents), it's given her a good starting point for her chosen career path, and it secured her multiple options for Outstanding state secondaries on aptitude places as well.

@boombang you’ve made three posts in this thread which are all state vs private themed. The OP was asking at which point a private education is more effective, not whether to go private at all. My comment about state primary “will do” was made in this context. Don’t take it the wrong way.

This thread is about how "effective" it is to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on children's education at different points of their lives and contains huge misunderstanding and misconceptions.

For example, the claim that "the bar is low" in state primaries. No it isn't, it is just measuring something different to private primaries, which are measuring one thing only, the ability answer abstract questions in selection tests at 11 or 13- no one needs to know the answers to these questions at any other point in their lives, and concentrating on these actually means that children from private primaries are often going to be classed as behind if they transfer to state.

Nannies are talked about as if they can provide something extra educationally during infancy - no they can't. I was a nanny myself for over a decade, and moved within nanny circles in London in that time, and knew literally hundreds of nannies.

A good nanny provides a high quality of child care, safe, and fun. They cannot provide anything developmentally that a parent cannot provide better. Simply because they don't have the same relationship with the child. Parents have a long term relationship with the child based on love, nannies have a short term relationship based on money, and children know that - at lease they should know that, it is very harmful if they don't.

Therefore, the best "investment" in your child's education in preschool years is your time, which may well involve less hours working and more sacrifice of salary. No amount of money can pay for anything equivalent to quality time with parent.

Other comments, such as saying a state primary "will do" and you need 5 figures a year to pay for music lessons are just snobbery and ignorance.

Privately educated people do not "do better" than state educated people in the long term, on average - some people have a good experience in private, some people have a terrible experience - same as state. The same teachers teach in both, at different times in their careers, the teaching is the same. Private schools often go for the cheaper and easier iGCSEs, which state schools are no longer allowed to offer (because they are easier - keep in mind they are designed for poor schools overseas with no resources, no internet, no practical equipment, no electricity, no photocopier etc - private schools in the UK are not what they were designed for, but such schools have adopted them because they are cheaper to run and easier to get high grades in)

Keep this in mind when comparing private and state school outcomes - that most private schools are using the easier exams..

The teaching is the same, the exams are probably easier - some people do better than they would in state, some do worse

There is none of the benefits that people imagine there are - your child likes their school and is happy there - great! pay if you want to- but also be clear about why they are happier and how they are going to manage once they are out in the "real world"- they are probably happier because they are sheltered, and have access to more facilities..

It isn't to do with better educational achievements.

Depends where you live.

In some boroughs in London for example 25-50% of children attend a private school.

I’d say most people I know in London follow exactly the pattern @WiseBiscuit describes.

Private nursery (as that’s the only option), state primary because they’re generally very good and the cost of private prep is prohibitive, private secondary if they can afford to it to try and get the best results.

My sacrifice was myself - for 7 years birth to school I was a sahm they went to a gentle local pre school a few mornings a week to prep for school otherwise they had all of me for those crucial years. Best “investment” ever.

I think, investing throughout a child's education is beneficial, research suggests the early years, from birth to 5 are most crucial for cognitive development. High-quality childcare and educational experiences during this time can have a lasting impact on children's long-term outcomes.

@boombang You don’t know much about prep schools do you? Many here prep for state 11 plus. Same as state primary pupils. Who gets the higher pass rate? Not much doubt as to that answer!

yes, I do, and it seems you don't.

prep schools prepare for 11+

state primary schools don't.

They are working towards totally different things, that is why a child going from one to the other is likely to be "behind" which ever way they go

That is rubbish. Many preps follow the NC. Some go beyond but state schools do too with extended work for the brightest. That’s why some dc even get to the most academic senior schools!

The difference is that state schools do not have a big cohort of brighter children and highly educated parents. So 85% pass rate can be achieved in a prep but if those dc had been in a state school, they still would be the higher achievers operating at above expected. Of course they would still pass! There are fewer dc in every primary operating at this level because the preps are selecting the best from highly motivated dc and parents with money . The state primary parents use tutors. They don’t pay fees, but they pay!

state schools do not teach to the 11+. This is a different curriculum, the content of the 11+ is not in the curriculum that state schools teach

It is here! Not sure where you are! The bigger issue is dc need a bit more depth to deal with the exams as they are in Sept in y6. Verbal papers and maths are what dc should be able to do with good teaching and reading skills. Non verbal could be a challenge if you haven’t seen it before. Plus multiple choice is often a new concept.

This just isn’t true though and provably so. Private school students are twice as likely to get A* or A at A level than state school students and that’s taking into account that many more state school students leave before A level than at private schools. That doesn’t necessarily mean private schools are better - it could be just a matter or demographics - but on average a pupil in private school will get much better grades than a pupil in state school.

In my county, looking at the A level league tables, the 5 independent schools come top, followed by all of the state schools. No state school is exceeding the results of even the least academic independent school.

Of course there will be plenty of state school students who are doing better than most private school students and some state schools, particularly grammar schools, which are better for results than most independent schools. But not on average.

Private schools select.Well quite a lot to. Certainly the top few hundred. Dc are pretty bright. No parent with low iq in a private school. No one not committed to their dc. No one (very much) a druggie or in prison. Most dc are from stable backgrounds with intelligent parents who value education. It’s hardly a level playing field. Sen not seen much. A touch of dyslexia. No behaviour issues. So if the top schools didn’t do better than the comp down the road, you really would wonder what was going on.

I think what’s demonstrable data wise is that the child’s socioeconomic status is far more indicative of their results than the school. Once you control for that the private schools don’t add any or much academic results value. Thats what the data says. My kids are going private.

I put this on the wrong thread first so apologies if you have seen it twice!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/jun/21/my-working-class-dad-sent-me-to-private-school-now-i-feel-that-ive-failed-him