When to invest most in children’s education?

[Internationalpony]

It’s a huge amount to invest to pay for nannies and private schools throughout DC’s lives and not affordable for many people.

So, at what stage of education do you think you get the best return on investment? If you had to make a choice, at what stage do you think it’s worth investing most in your DC’s education:

• Paying for a nanny from 12 months until going to school (given the importance of pre-school years)
• Prep school from age 5-11
• Independent secondary school from age 11-18

Which do you think impacts most on long term outcomes for children?

I’d especially love to hear from people who have DC who have been through one of the above or anyone with knowledge of child development.

(Don’t waste your money on private primary school, and look carefully at your local state schools and where you can realistically move to before fixing on private secondary - it kind of mostly comes down to vibes and personality.)

Careful of using ofsted ratings - better indicator of ability of school to perform against a checklist than quality of education. We started at an ofsted outstanding primary and it was dreadful for our children. All they cared about was working towards tests (phonics screener, sats, etc.) and routinely would pull children (either singularly or collectively)out of an enrichment to drill whatever area they were concerned about at the moment. Forest school was meant to be weekly but maybe happened 3 times all year? Same with music outside of prep for nativity. Art was having colouring set up while teachers drilled underperforming groups. This was in reception- not very nurturing!

We has a nanny because with twins it actually works out a bit cheaper than nursery. It was ideal for me, but not sure it made any difference for dc. I guess it depends on your options - some nurseries are brilliant and I would argue are better than a nanny in terms of having access to resources. Will also depend on what hours you need covered - 8 hours a day or just a couple days a week is different than needing childcare 10-12 hours/ day 5 days a week.

We are currently in a nonselective independent for primary years, and it has been worth every penny. We started in state (see above post) but we’re really unhappy with the experience - both dc were really unhappy in the school, and one dc was showing signs of neurodiversity. I routinely volunteered in the classroom, so have a good idea of the experience, and our indie vs. Old state was night and day. So many more enrichments within the day, activities are always hands on and engaging, loads of personal support for children regardless of level of attainment. My ND child is in a much better place mentally and is really thriving, but her neurotypical sister has actually seen the biggest benefit in terms of confidence overall as well as academic progress following a slow start with reading. They both love school now and skip in with smiles every morning. Whatever happens in secondary I know we have given them a great start and established a love of learning and a love for school that hopefully perseveres.

we are not sure what we will do for secondary - based on our early experience I really am skeptical of state being able to support our nd child in particular, but trying to keep an open mind. We are not in a grammar area (not that this would necessarily be a good fit for dc), and the local secondary seems to have really gone downhill in parent perceptions over last few years. If they turn out to be super academic I think it matters less - if they are motivated, have good study habits and likely to be in top sets then I don’t know that private has much value add assuming you can supplement enrichment activities elsewhere. If they are more middle of the road or need more support in certain subjects then I think private has more value

You invest, with time or money or both, when they look as though they might not be meeting their potential. This is going to be different for every child.

Exactly. Having been Ofsteded a couple of times in the past few years, I increasingly feel like what they are looking for is at odds with what parents actually want for their children.

It depends on the gap between provision in your area but in mine it’s an absolute no brainer that money would be best spent at private secondary. In some places though primaries are struggling financially and with huge sen needs so there are lots of arguments for a private prep if you have unlimited money.

we seriously considered a move in year 3 from state to prep but decided against it for financial reasons. We didn’t feel like the additional £80k would be worth it when that money would be better spent saved towards secondary fees. We will inevitably need a tutor for 11 plus and spend a fortune on extra curricular but so do parents in the preps.

I would say invest in the early years. We worked very flexibly and did a lot of the early childcare ourselves, but we also employed the most wonderful nanny who gave our dc so much in addition to what we could provide as parents. We are still in touch many years later and after having moved a couple of hundred miles away... the bond that she has with dd is unbreakable as far as I can see.

We were in a financial position where we could have invested in private education as well, but I genuinely couldn't see the point. I was confident that dd would excel and thrive in the state sector, and she absolutely did. No regrets here, and I wouldn't change any of the decisions that we made...dd is a young adult now and I couldn't be any prouder of the adult she has become.

I honestly think that the seeds of who dd is now were sown in those early years... you could see key elements of her personality emerging well before she started school. If that personality had been a different one, perhaps we would have made different decisions about her schooling, who knows?

There are just no guarantees when you spend money on education. It isn't a simple as money in - results and happiness out. I had a wonderful prep experience and a dreadful senior experience - my parents must have been horrified at what they spent and what they 'got'. Academically I went from high attaining to low attaining and had a myriad of mental health issues caused by bullying.
And what about this boarding senior school that is in the news today - kids with weapons in dorms. Just terrifying. My senior school was like a pharmacy. there were so many different types of drugs on offer. You honestly just have to take a leap of faith whatever you choose that the other teenagers won't influence your teenager.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/21/boy-guilty-attempted-murders-devon-blundells-private-school-hammer-attack

This was in the article.
It was revealed the attacker was not the only boy who kept potential weapons. A staff member had confiscated hammers from pupils, including from the attacker.
Devon and Cornwall police said in 2018 it was contacted about allegations of bullying, unconnected to the case. The force said there was “initial engagement” by it but the matter was left in the hands of the school.
It was also claimed that while boarders were supposed to hand over their phones at bed time, they often kept “burners” hidden and the attacker was plugged into media for many hours at a time deep into the night.

As an ex governess and teacher I agree with @FrogNToad

@Internationalpony are you in the Cheshire area? Referencing the grammars and the poor baby at the nursery in Cheadle make me think you might be. If so I would definitely consider a nanny share the nursery provision in Cheshire is pretty awful, hugely expensive for your child to be taken care of largely by teenagers with very little education

@Internationalpony There is quite a lot to unpick here. Some of the best independent schools recruit for y9. So you really need a prep if you want that. If you want to transfer at 11, how competitive is the school? This makes a huge difference too.

What do you want from a school? Prep should be about destination schools and a much better offering in sport, art, music and drama. If you can provide these outside school, you might not want to pay. If you value a more organised approach at school and you are working, a prep makes sense.

My DD1 did state to 11 and then went to a boarding school at 11. Not that competitive to get in but some are. Again, what are you aiming for? DD2 did prep and the same school as her sister. We didn’t just go senior private thinking exam results would be better. We wanted a much broader education and an opportunity to experience lots of different things that suited them. DD1 did pass for a state grammar.

Lastly you don’t know if dc will pass for a grammar. We are a LA with 13 grammars. Not one. Far more go to grammars here. You could move to a grammar LA and hedge your bets a bit more!

Nanny - yes but they might not be as good as you. Nanny can work well for busy parents though. As can weekly boarding.

no you can't - everything a nanny does for a child is because they are paid to do it, and once your child realises that they lose a lot of the resilience and confidence they would have hung on to if the person doing all this with them had done it out of love.

I have worked in old people's homes with men in their 90s who still have not recovered from losing their nanny as a child. It has haunted them for life, even if they do not mention it for the intervening 70 years.

The best investment in your child is your time, no amount of paid educational investments come anywhere near close.

Following on from that, there is no set pattern of money paid at a set time which is going to be better or worse for all children.

I would stay state school all the way, as long as there is a good behaviour policy enforced. And tutoring/hobbies etc according to the needs and wants of the child.

I think in a lot of circumstances, state schools are better not just educationally, but in giving a real -world grounding. Students come out of state schools as better allrounders, as well as with better grades, a lot of the time

Whether a child would benefit from tutoring or not depends on their own circumstances, what is helpful for one might be unnecessary,, or inappropriate for another

This is a bit confused.

Nannies do form very close bonds with the kids they look after - it would be very hard to do a good job if they didn’t - and the fact they are paid for it doesn’t negate that.

The men you are talking about were presumably mourning the fact that their nanny, who they likely saw as a mother figure, moved on from the employment so they didn’t see them anymore, not the fact that they were an employee.

And a nanny relationship 90 years ago, when parents were often very distant, is nothing like a nanny relationship today.

Yes we come under Trafford for schooling. Local nursery and primary school are both outstanding but as PP have said I don’t think ofsted ratings mean much! The nannies around here aren’t exactly Norland nannies either though!

I think it depends on what you have locally. I had dire state primaries and loads of grammars for secondary, so sent dd to prep school and hoped for grammar (which thankfully paid off). They're all different, obviously, but the prep gave her confidence, a very ‘young’ (quaint?) experience of primary with sweet traditions, small classes, loads of activities, good amount of healthy competition, very high standards of manners etc etc. I know many state primaries offer this and more, but the point is that I couldn’t access that for her where we live, so I chose to pay.

I would second the PP who have said uni though too- it’s hugely expensive if your household income is over the threshold, so I’d save for that too.

Unfortunately I’ve seen quite a few state educated secondary dc who have achieved very little. They were allowed to coast and did nothing extra. So no sport teams, no drama or music - in fact nothing in addition to lessons which they didn’t enjoy. Harsh behaviour rules and lack of ensuring dc remain enthusiastic kills some state schools. Many private schools do have high achieving dc but even if they are not this type of school, they will offer more. The most important thing is to plan and be realistic. State to 8 (or 7) is still popular.

realising they are an employee is part of the loss - and no, I wouldn't say relationships are different now. There is a wide range, as there always has been

Feeling slightly sorry for your child “getting the best out of them” all sounds like they are a racehorse or something- terribly pushy and very literal “you pay x and you get y out” this is a person! How about - you know - enjoy your child encourage them and nurture their interests and friendships as you go along?

Getting the best out of them is about doing what’s best for your child to give them the best opportunities in life. As I said in the post you’ve quoted, it isn’t about being a straight A student but instilling confidence in them and helping them to find their strengths and passions be it academic or music, sport, art etc. Not sure how that sounds like a race horse? I think that’s what all parents should want for their children.

yes, I am sure, but I've seen plenty of private school students the same

How awful for those men. I can only imagine that the relationship with their parents must have been awful/non-exsistent for the loss of a childhood nanny to hit so hard.

Of course, this isn't the case for the vast majority of children.

The damage done from having terrible parents isn't going to be made ok with a nanny or a private school (either primary or secondary) so probably not massively relevant to this thread, where I think we're all assuming that the theoretical child has parents who love them.

Most people around here don’t bother with private prep and opt for state primary (rural, very good small village schools-DD’s going in to a school of 68 kids 4-11) then go private for senior school if they have the funds although the state options are pretty good.

Preschool it entirely depends on circumstances, parental involvement more important than a nanny.

We did private nursery, are doing state primary and then will try for DH’s old private for seniors if we can get some help with fees. DH was on a scholarship. It’s £22k for day before Labour’s tax so whether we can remains to be seen. Our state secondary’s are better than most though.

@Internationalpony I agree that the ratings actually mean very little. Whilst you wouldn’t necessarily get the high calibre Nannie’s that would be available to you in London if you would consider a nanny share you could get someone more highly qualified but I fully acknowledge how limited the choices are. I don’t even think there are any 2-18 indies where you could use the nursery provision although I could be wrong