To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

I think we all more than understand the unfair advantage and opening of doors that it gives it gives you very well indeed .

he decision to send to private school is always "I want my child to mix with other financially well off children whose parents are also heavily invested in their education". Just own it.

This is exactly the reason why we paid for a house in catchment for an excellent state school. Not so much that we wanted our kids to mix with "well off" kids, but that we wanted them in a school where education was valued by the parents and where the kids were pushed to achieve their best. Where there wasn't a huge issue with discipline and where most kids stayed on post-16 so the school could offer a wide range of subjects at university-entry level.

I don't have an issue explaining that to anyone.

I went to a state school but work in an industry with lots of privately educated people. One DC also went to private school but now goes to a state secondary so I’ve seen both sides. In my experience private school makes you into a confident speaker but also encourages group think and doesn’t expose you to the wide range of people and viewpoints that exist in real life- as illustrated by Rishi Sunak.

It was me who said this but it wasn’t about private school, it was about attempting to reverse engineer my child into hobbies she’s genuinely disinterested in, to widen her social circle.

I fully agree that private schooling by its very nature of course socially engineers.

However, where we live, Labour merged schools into what they called ‘super schools’ - large primaries and secondaries replacing smaller ones. Idea was to pull up the ones in the bad areas, reality was it dragged them all down. That’s social engineering at its finest, it’s made an absolute mess of the state system and left people who didn’t want their children in these genuinely appalling schools forced into private where it was affordable.

Social engineering happens/is directed to happen on both sides of the political spectrum and I don’t think it’s particularly successful in either direction.

Couldn't agree with this more. I was privately educated, and have taught for over 20 years in both systems, currently as a head of department at a state grammar.

There is really no comparison, neither system is bad, both have good points, I'm extremely proud of the school I work in, and if I was solely concerned about academic outcomes would send my child here.

However, private school offers so much more than just lessons, there is so much in the way of sport, outward bound, societies, arts, drama, extended curriculum etc that doesn't top and tail the day, it actually forms part of the day to day routine.

The old boys network is strong too, not in terms of financial backscratching, but just keeping in touch, I'm still in regular contact with all my classmates - and if I wear my old boys tie, as often I do, I will often encounter other private school alumni from other schools, it breaks the ice.

Then there is the history of the places, the atmosphere, it's really hard to quantify, but they are just in no way the same, and unless you have been a pupil yourself in private, I just don't think you understand.

So my lad is off to private senior in September, £40K a year (£50K with VAT!!) but well spent in my opinion.

Similar parent here…DCs are at a selective grammar for the same reasons. Not to mix with “well off” kids, but to be surrounded by kids who come from families where the value of education is paramount. The collective attitude across the school makes a world of difference.

I was taken out of my lovely village primary school at the age of 8 and sent to private school. I hated every minute! I was bullied for 10 years straight (3 years at prep, 5 at secondary and 2 at 6th Form). It destroyed every shred of my self confidence, I can barely look in a mirror because I was constantly ridiculed about my appearance and I have a very difficult time believing any of my friends actually like me.

I begged my parents to let me change school but they didn't believe a word I told them about how I was treated. It was a private school, they were paying a huge amount of money how could it not be perfect?!?

The girls I went to school with were vile, arrogant bitches who all seemed to have sadistic streaks, and most of the teachers weren't much better.

I have no desire to send my children to private school, I'd rather home educate them.

Obviously for some, private school works but for others it's a horrific experience. Just because you pay a huge amount of money for someone doesn't automatically mean it's the best/better option (something my parents still fail to realise!).

"Parents want the best for their children—is there something wrong with not wanting your own child to be in a classroom, which as you describe above, as chaotic? I don’t want my own children in chaotic classrooms. Does that make me a bad person?"

No - of course not.

But my comment was in a response to a post by someone saying 'private schools show how education should be'.

If you're going to say 'this is why private schools are better' then just acknowledge - it's primarily because they've got much more money and they provide a learning environment that's 'socially cleansed' of all the most difficult kids.

I sympathise with parents wanting to socially engineer their child's schooling and entrench whatever privileges their child has with a place on the sunny end of life's uneven playing field. It's human nature. But I also think it's the role of government to legislate in ways to try to address inequality of opportunity for children - which is what Labour's plans re: private school fees go towards doing (in an albeit small way).

Based on the evidence of people I've met, academic education is the least important thing you're buying with private schooling.

• Confidence that the Dunning-Kruger effect affects only poor folk
• The networks and the shameless (and ruthless) use of them.
• Ability to leverage less than stellar results into Oxbridge (Nick Clegg)
• Credentials to support ambition (Conservative party had a choice of Boris Johnson or Rory Stewart - both Eton and Balliol)
• Experience of trying to gain followers for votes and debates - happens seriously in a few state schools but not many.
• Opportunities (for parents with deep pockets) to conveniently try out expensive/exclusive hobbies.
• For boarders, the opportunity to explore drama/arts/music in their empty hours - public school pupils heavily represented - Eddie Redmayne could afford 300 auditions before he got a gig.
• Excessive forgiveness for 'going off the rails'. Redemption and second-chances often not available for those with more humble origins.

Many brilliant people among the 7%, but outnumbered by the grifters IMHO.

You need to explain your reasoning for your thinking OP, not just post and run like a coward.

Not all state and private schools are the same though. The gap between a failing comprehensive and a top grammar is far bigger than between an average comprehensive and an local private day school (i.e. not a top public school). However people continue to think of state vs private in black and white terms.

Quite.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that our DC (state school educated) have achieved much more, earn more and are happier than their cousin's who all went to private school.
I think bright kids will achieve anywhere and for those that aren't interested in academia, private school is just a waste of money.
I know a few young adults who wished they had the money their parents spent on their education to use as house deposits or set up in business.

"And please don't give me 'we have a bursary system to support children from poorer families' - I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough. The only children who get bursaries are those who come from highly supportive households where parents will a) apply for a place at private school b) have a child bright enough to pass entrance exams that most private schools have and c) jump through all the hoops involved in applying for a subsidised place d) understand the extent to which they'll need to support their child's learning to keep them in a private school."

You don't know what you're talking about if you lump all bursary receivers in this category.
Some parents are on benefits; some cannot have their children at home.
The bursary system actually ensures a more diverse school population so that the Rishi Sunaks and Jeremy Hunts of the future can get to know kids whose parents are struggling.

Ok. How's about, Unless you've been to both State and Private you can't possibly comment on why one is better/worse than the other?

I've been to both. My kids go to state. That should tell you all you need to know!

Hmm. I think you sound a bit ignorant 😄

Both my parents went to private school. Couldn’t afford to send their children. I have lots of friends who went to private school too, and precisely zero of them can afford to send their kids to private school. So there is a flaw in the system no? I’m sure private school is lovely but something is going wrong surely. After all, they’re businesses, it’s in their interest to churn out high earners who can create more customers.

Re experience to try out expensive hobbies.

You don't have to go to Eton to row! Warrington rowing club is probably the best in the country right now. It's not expensive either.

I did. All the curious kids (wanting to see what a "proper posh person's house was like" came over to my divorced fathers tiny house one day after school and one loudly declared "Well, this is not what I expected!" when presented with a small 2 bed terraced house where I did all the cleaning and cooking.

Kids were nice and I wasn't bullied by them. As I said, one of the teachers though... I was predicted ABB at my previous school and got CCC. I am not blaming the teachers for other subjects but that A was English and I should have at least had a B, so I do blame that one woman for being such a reverse snob she killed any joy I had in that subject.

Ah. Zero replies from OP. Wind ‘em up and watch ‘em go 😄

I would also agree with this. My Mum's wages paid for x2 private school fees back in the 80's. She was a teacher. That same school now has annual fees of £20k, so £40k for two kids. No regular classroom teacher is earning £40k as take home pay!

I have to be honest though, I did laugh when I saw how badly it has been doing the last few years. The local grammars are smashing it results wise.

I genuinely think the insane privilege of private schools is just completely toxic for the country.

Put a small group of already highly advantaged children into a socially and economically elite educational setting where they're sheltered from coming into contact with disadvantage. While they're there absolutely shower them with a colossal amount of resources. Then send them out to work in the media, judge us, legislate and basically lord it over the rest of us.

No wonder so many journalists, judges, politicians, financiers, captains of industry etc are so oblivious of the realities of ordinary people's lives.

Actually that is a point I can’t disagree with as a private school parent.

We have had an outstanding experience. There is a spectrum though, and not all are fantastic of course, but on the whole it has been great for my family.

In the 1980/90s...my private school was full of kids whose parents did very ordinary jobs...think mum in admin and dad a cab driver. People in those jobs now would not be able to afford private school. My DD goes to a bog standard, non selective, state secondary school...her friendship group is incredibly middle class. I was quite surprised in all honesty... definitely the type of families who would have been able to afford private school decades ago but are now priced out.

I think it's the wrong question. It's exactly because it's valuable and opens doors that it shouldn't exist, because why should not having rich parents mean you are denied the benefits that others get? It's increasing inequality.

'entitled brats' 'arrogant wankers'

Grown women talking about children. Bravo.

You do realise that many parents put their kids in private school because they have SEN and state schools cannot meet their needs/no specialist school place for them. Or their kids have been physically attacked/bullied and their parents want them to feel safe and scrimp and save to protect their kids?

Just read the thread with hundreds of posts from teachers and TAs that have worked/are working in state schools, who themselves, have described their schools and the reasons why they left/had breakdowns/were verbally and physically abused by the children or SLT not supporting them.

Then some people have the audacity to question why parents made a decision to send their children to a private school. They can carry on name calling. So ignorant.

Private schools are safe, nurturing, individualistic and have amazing academic, musical and sporting opportunities. Many are based in huge grounds to play in the trees, and be children. The class sizes are small, and every child matters. They are raised to be confident, dynamic and capable with skills that are hard to replicate elsewhere. It’s more than just rowing - it’s the whole culture.