Opinions needed on Yr3 son's school - state to private?

[OneAzureBeaker]

So my son is NOT thriving at his primary. He spends half his time out of the classroom either in the library or in internal suspension outside the Head's office.
I suspect he has ASD and ADHD but he's also very bright, loves maths, number facts and reading. He has also destroyed the classroom, flipped tables, hit other children apparently without warning.
I do not know the child school sees. At home he is loving and kind and sweet, although he finds transitions difficult, especially when in hyperfocus mode, and is very sensory and CANNOT sit still.
We are trying to get him diagnosed but the waiting list is YEARS long, so we are now on the waiting list for private diagnosis.
The school SENCO (who was also his class teacher) spent years denying that he could possibly have any sort of SEN, and was merely making poor choices, and issued sticker charts.
After a year of MyPlans and generally being fobbed off I insisted on an EHCP needs assessment which is now very overdue and likely to stay so.
I can't bear this any longer so I've found a lovely private school. It will be a huge financial struggle (I'm only a part time teacher so don't earn much, plus 2 other children), and I'm not even sure they will take a child that apparently has such severe behavioural issues, but I will try.
Anyone have any advice, opinions, or suggestions?
TIA

i can't understand why you are getting such negative comments on this one.
it's a great idea, nothing to loose. yes it's money but it's your sons future.
100% private assessment and diagnosis and then try private school. if it doesn't work then you will know more about your son and can always return to state.
your other children will understand with time, maybe not as teens but eventually they will.

Totally honestly I don’t think it would be wise to move to an independent mainstream.

They will not tolerate that kind of behaviour they will say can’t meet need good bye. That’s the end of that. It will be a quick exit.

if you did get into the independent mainstream and you did get your EHCP and you did get some hrs 1 to 1 (lots of IFs) and it was not a named school in action I - guess what YOU are paying for the first 13 hrs of the 1 to 1 which is £6k and that is slapped straight onto your invoice. Plus they might not award you full time 1 to 1 from the LA and guess who else picks up that invoice YOU.

Id be questioning this independent mainstream- lots struggling for cash / closing down / single sex turning into co Ed.

Independents long hrs / lots of transitions too

You are better protected in a state school with an EHCP rather than a private.

Rather than paying for private now - spend your cash on OT / SALT / EP / clinical phys. private people - that’s £10k gone straight away trying to work out from the professionals what will or won’t work.

You can have an absolutely amazing EHCP - all smart in section F - it still doesn’t mean that you get everything delivered In a private school (we didn’t) LAs are 💩 and private schools absolutely love NT children who can promote their instagrams with sporting achievements etc but sencos can be absolutely rubbish in a private setting even questionable how they even got their job!

Good luck

Not negative just realistic and unless its an independent specialist from what the OP says private school will not be set up for or tolerate her son’s needs plus in the process do serious harm to his wellbeing.
Sorry but a flippant and ill thought out post with no real understanding.

understanding of what? that you go speak to the head, request a free trial day (most offer this) and TRY? certainly no more damage than sitting in the hall or library unwanted and not being educated.
zero harm to his "wellbeing".

Understanding of the kids SEN??? Jesus christ!!!

Your DS has a very similar profile to my DS (who is now an adult). He was diagnosed with autism at age 8 and ended up at a residential specialist school for autism from age 11. It was a long and expensive road to get there, with multiple tribunals, solicitors, assessments from specialists including Ed Psychs, OTs, SALTs and a psychiatrist and psychologist.

We found it impossible to find a private non-SEN school to accept him with his behavioural issues. There were no local special schools that could meet his academic needs. The special schools that can provide specialist support but also cater for bright dc are usually independent (but fees paid by the LA via an EHCP). You should look further afield out of your local area. There may be day special schools (quite a few have opened since my DS started at his special school, and if they'd existed at that time he might have gone there), otherwise you could consider residential placements, though your DS is a bit young now (but might be old enough once you finally get an appropriate EHCP - ours took years and it seems like the system is under more pressure now).

Independent schools that don’t have any SEN specialism as part of their stated offering are usually less good for SEN than state schools.

no swearing necessary, yes the child has some sen clearly and will need diagnosis (notice i mentioned that) but ONE day or a TRIAL period at a new school will NOT affect his wellbeing (after all the parent is the one suggesting this and must know her child best).

Go to bed love..A one day trial at a private school
is not going to address this childs needs.

No it may not but if indeed the child does fine at home, it may.

I hope your son is doing well now its a shitty road to go down well done to you 👏

Don't be surprised if your LA do everything they can to avoid him being able to go to the school named on his EHCP. My nephew had a diagnosis & a school named on his EHCP, but it took nearly 2 years & a very expensive tribunal that cost thousands in legal fees before they finally folded & agreed to fund his place. The school costs £35k a year & is run by the Autistic Society. It took until a week before he was due to go into Y7 for them to agree. The school has been life changing for him, before he started, he hardly used to say a word, didn't have friends & often spent time at school being sent from class to class on "erands" to keep him occupied. He is very confident now at nearly 17, goes out to a youth club or out with his friends, he even goes out locally on his own, something he would never have done before & is getting ready to learn to drive & have his own mobility car. He has ambitions to be a mechanic & is due to start day release in September with support from his school.

I’ve put my SEN dc through private. I’ve seen lots of SEN dc in the school - most get expelled.

don’t do it. You might be able to afford the fees, but you’ll pay more for extras he may need - such as playground supervision. Kids in private are just as prone to goading as kids in state. And your child will be goaded and then blamed for the consequences. The playground supervision is bare minimum due to cost cutting. Staff are overworked and frequently off with stress.

what you need to do is to absolutely hound the state into helping your child. Get the EHCP.

Unnecessarily nasty response. No one is Suggesting that a trial day is going to solve the problem, just provide some insight into how they might do in a different environment.

send is a very big tent and school provision varies massively based on where you live.With support already thin on the ground whether we are talking support within a mainstream school or placement at a specialist school, it is no secret that it can be incredibly difficult to find the right setting for your child’s particular needs. There is no harm in exploring private schools - some semi-specialise in send, and the offering may be much more robust than you might anticipate and the very nature of private (smaller classes, more flex) can go a very long way to addressing a send child’s needs.

Given that you're a teacher, currently working part-time (so the cost of giving up work is lower than FT) , and that your DS does well at home, you might find that home Ed is a better fit for your family than most - at least until you get the EHCP and find a school which is a better long term solution.

And going that route means you get as much state support as possible, leaving your own resources (which you'd otherwise use for private fees) to plug the remaining gaps.

I don't have experience with getting help for SEN, but I'd be looking at researching:
-what options you can ask for when the EHCP finally happens
-whether there's any advantage in terms of what you'll be offered if you stay in a very limited timetable at his existing school (which you can ignore) versus officially taking him out EHE
-also whether placing him in a private school before the EHCP would limit what you'd get in his EHCP (I have no idea, but it seems possible - especially if he's then coping better)
-look really widely to find schools which you think could work for him longer term
-if some of those are private, whether there are staff discounts if you work there (you have a good card to play there, since you're a teacher!)

I don't think I'd be leaving my DC in full timetable at a school where he gets so distressed that he gets violent and is excluded from most teaching.

But I'd certainly be trying to be figure out what the most effective route is to getting him the best solution in the medium to long term - rather than concentrating on a solution for right now. And then I'd be just finding a way for him to not be distressed in the meantime.

He's in year 3. Emotional and social wellbeing is the critical thing just now. Basics of education are important - but you can provide that yourself, especially since you're a teacher. And without the emotional well-being, he won't get anything from school anyway. Secondary is the time you really need to get education in place for him - so prioritise putting what you need to in place to get that right.

Having said that, the right school which allows him to thrive would be better than EHE. So certainly look down that route too. But don't jeopardise the long term solution for a short term fix.

That's not been our experience with any of the independent schools my children have attended.

Speak to the SENCO at the school you like and explain his needs and see what they say. They'll likely want him in for a taster day anyway.

Surprisingly for a Saturday morning I have had a reply to my message to the school outlining everything.
They DO cater for Sen in the primary school and most of their pupils are ND. Class size is 6 to 10. The fact that he is not violent at home or other settings they said has "potential for a calm transition" to their school apparently. I have hopes that there won't be any further meltdowns in a school that can meet his needs, and as I say we have zero problems out of school or in his extra curricular activities. They have suggested 2 back to back trial days.

Those people that keep going on about getting the EHCP have obviously not read my previous posts where I have said that all the paperwork is in and we are waiting on the LA.. We have had an ed psych report which has NO areas of SEMH need, but had several social communication and academic needs identified. We are in the process of getting a private diagnosis. I'm not sure what else people expect to me to do because the local state send provision is absolutely dire and is absolutely not meeting anyone's needs, even if the EHCP states they should get the moon on a stick schools just cannot provide that as they cannot even provide teachers for most classes. TAs teach half the lessons and all the lessons one year. State schools are on their knees and many posts go unfilled for years.

There are also no state or independent schools in the entire county that cater for bright autistic kids and I am not prepared for him to board, having been at a boarding school myself. Yes I was privately educated so I know what they can be like

The best of luck OP. With class sizes that small I would be looking at the finances of that school closely especially with VAT coming in. You have made your mind up and to add there are wonderful high performing state schools. My DS attends one.

I am sure there are good state schools. I teach at one (secondary) and I have not decided but a taster day is no loss.

If the LA has failed to comply with the EHCP statutory timescales, have you sent IPSEA’s model letter to the LA? If that didn’t work, have you sent a pre-action letter? You do not need to sit back and accept the LA acting unlawfully.

DS clearly has other needs as well, but he does have SEMH needs. It is common for DC with SEN, especially SEN to the extent an EHCNA has been requested, to have needs in all 4 broad areas. It is a poor EP report who states a pupil with the presentation you describe doesn’t have SEMH needs at all. He obviously has needs in all 4 areas.

The ed psych report said a high level of keyworker support was needed.

If the EP report uses this wording, it is too vague and woolly. Provision in EHCPs is taken from the reports. If that wording is included in F, the EHCP will not be worth the paper it is written on. What is a ‘high level’? What ‘support’? Who is a ‘keyworker’?

His school have said categorically they do not do 121s.

The school is lying. 1:1 would need to be in the EHCP, but 1:1 absolutely can be given in mainstream.

even if the EHCP states they should get the moon on a stick schools just cannot provide that

EHCPs are a legal document. Provision detailed, specified and quantified in F can be enforced, via judicial review if necessary. Parents don’t have to accept provision not being provided. The problem is many EHCPs are written poorly with wording such as ‘high level of support’, ‘access to’, ‘opportunities for’, ‘would benefit from’, ‘small group’, ‘adult support’… which makes it unenforceable, so parents need to appeal to get a watertight EHCP first before it can be enforced.

My last option is quit my job and homeschool, unless anyone has any other suggestions?

You don’t have to EHE. If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, there is EOTAS.

Be aware, to get a school that is wholly independent named in an EHCP you will need to show the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DS’s needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. Many have to appeal.

Where are you based or is that too outing? My son is in an autism school for children of mainstream academic ability, it is the only la school but there are also several independent specialists that cater for the same type of child. They are expensive and usually have to take the la to tribunal to get but they are there. Your son sounds exactly like mine at that age, one thing I would say is that his autism has become more obvious as he has got older. I remember when we had our first ehcp meeting when he was in year 3 and me saying I wanted to get good support now so he’d be independent for secondary. He’s now year 9 and there is absolutely no way he would have ever managed in a mainstream secondary. He’s at specialist in a class of 4 and his timetable is specific to him and he gets lots of 1-1

The local send charities and sendias all concur that there are no suitable schools for him within a reasonable commute.
The school is not lying. There are other pupils who are supposed to get 121s who share a single 121 and don't always get that as they have been unable to recruit suitable staff.
The ed psych report did state daily and weekly sessions and times but it was so long I didn't feel the need to get into the nitty gritty here.
I did not send the model letter as that is all about failure to acknowledge. They have replied and agreed to assess - everything is in. It's just waiting for a draft EHCP now which I am told will take up to 6 months due to lack of staff at the LA.
Schools are all broke and in deficit. The council is about to go bankrupt. Threatening that such and such is illegal make absolutely no difference. I've seen it at the school I work at and friend's schools and at my other kids schools. The system is absolutely broken. Even things that worked last year are no longer working. While he has been on the autism diagnosis waiting list, the list wait time has trebled.

The school is lying if they have said “categorically they do not do 121s.” That is a lie.

If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F it can be enforced. Recruitment isn’t the parents’ concern. Funding or recruitment is often cited as a reason why provision detailed, specified and quantified in F can’t be provided, but when LAs, who are ultimately responsible for ensuring provision in F is provided under s42 of the Children and Families 2014, are faced with enforcement action it is never an actual barrier.

Threatening that such and such is illegal make absolutely no difference.

Threatening judicial review and sending pre-action letters does work in the vast majority of cases. Where it doesn’t, JR itself does. Parents don’t have to accept unlawful behaviour.

I did not send the model letter as that is all about failure to acknowledge. They have replied and agreed to assess - everything is in. It's just waiting for a draft EHCP now which I am told will take up to 6 months due to lack of staff at the LA.

IPSEA’s model letter isn’t about failing to acknowledge. Model letter 10 is about failure to comply with the timescales for issuing/finalising. 6 months is failing to comply with them and you do not have to accept their unlawful behaviour. Send the model letter to the Director of Children’s Services. If that doesn’t work, email again threatening judicial review. If that fails, you need a pre-action letter.

Unfortunately, DC whose parents know the system, advocate for them and enforce their rights get better support. It shouldn’t be like that. It fails the most vulnerable, but it isn’t going to change in the foreseeable future.

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good, but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.