Grammar school or v good state

[user134276]

DS is about to go into y5 so we need to start looking at secondary schools for him.

We are very fortunate to live in an area with plenty of choice.

School A is a well regarded grammar school. It's not super selective, but well regarded. It's academic but also sporty. It's about a 20/30 minute bus ride away. On a bad day it may take 45 mins. It's single sex and people travel from the nearby cities to go there and travel up to an hour. About 50% of people come from our of county.

School B is out local state school. It's consistently one of the best in the country. It's a 15 minute walk away or a 10 min cycle. It's a pleasant walk. It's very well regarded and lots of people move to live nearby. It's considered to be an inclusive school. Most children walk and live nearby as it has a small catchment area. Behaviour is good and it's as academic as state schools get.

DS is very bright on paper but has ADHD and struggles to apply himself/focus. I'm confident he would be able to pass the 11+ with minimal tutoring but I expect the reality is that he would be towards the bottom of the grammar school purely because of his focus. His ability is good but his performance is just above average.

Part of me thinks if he can pass the grammar test then he should go there. But another part of me thinks it might be better to be top middle of the pack somewhere else and have the life balance of walking to school and living near his friends. Grateful for all opinions!

I would go local unless there was a massive advantage from a one hour-plus bus journey each day.

I went to a grammar school in a very rural area and my friends lived 10-15+ miles away, so I never saw them out of school.

That said, I would still view the grammar if you think it might suit.

BTW a grammar school is a state school (unless it is a private, fee-paying "grammar" - is it?). Your local school is presumably a state comprehensive.

Yes I meant non grammar. Both are state 😊

@user134276 the grammar school you describe sounds similar to the one my ds is at (also different county to the one we live in).
Ds does travel 15ish miles to get to school, but for us, the local schools were not great and it really was the best fit.

Do you know any other parents that have children in either of the schools? It'll be the best way to find out more about the schools.

Does the non selective take the full range, or does the grammar cream off the top pupils?

What are subject options like? The SEN department? Extra curricular?

You need to look at both schools with an open mind really. A school can be good on paper but terrible for an individual

The grammar school don't really cream the top off, no as we get so many out of county applicants. There are definitely plenty of bright, motivated children at both.

SEN possibly slightly better in the grammar for DS as more chn there would be neurodiverse but the non grammar is certainly still very good and prides itself on being an inclusive school.

Subjects are very similar!

So we had similar dilemma but what swung it for me was where I felt DS would fit better. For me I visited both schools with DS, spoke to Senco, asked son what he felt and went from there. He is thriving in the school we chose and has made friendships ( in yr 7 currently) and seems to be enjoying it. The school works well for him as he likes rules and they are very black and white which he needs.

Out of interest @Gizlotsmum was it grammar or state you went for?

But grammar schools are state schools, what are you on about?

We went for grammar in the end. Just because for DS he needed the rules and for them to be upheld, he can’t cope with rules being ignored…He has settled well and the teachers are happy to answer all the questions he has. He likes the behaviour points system and the reward trips and he has found his tribe.

I'd go to open days and see which one feels best. But on paper, the local school sounds like a better option. As teenagers, having local friends can be very important. And on a practical note, if he has ADHD, then consider what will happen every time he misses the bus to school. Because it will happen a lot, it almost happen a lot with very stressful mornings.

@UnimaginableWindBird I hadn't thought about that 🤪 that's exactly the sort of thing that DS will struggle with!!!!

I have ADHD. I'm almost 50 and I still have nightmares about missing buses and trains. I'll warn you now that in his extreme effort NOT to miss the bus, he will end up forgetting his lunch. PE kit or homework 😃

Local. Better for friendships, better not to spend 90 mins a day travelling, better for a child with ADHD not to be grappling with bus journeys, leaving bag, coat, etc on bus while losing bus fare / bus pass…

HOW had I not thought about that. There is no way he wouldn't leave absolutely everything on the bus. His absolute biggest struggle is organizing himself. I guess because I find those things really straightforward I hadn't thought about that being challenging for him, but of course it will. Every day when I pick him up from school he has to go back in for something and he doesn't even have the stress of busses/different lessons/clubs yet.

We had a similar choice and went for where I thought their mental health would be best. For us that was the local school. I felt the journey time would be exhausting day after day, that they (and us) would have to travel a lot for friends. The top stream was as high achieving at the comp as the grammar. Mine are now near the end of school and I don't regret our choice one bit. They have lovely groups of friends who they can walk and see, a really active social life, time for extra curricular and hobbies after school, and are happy.

Ds has ADHD and went to a grammar school a long bus ride away, with an early start. Yes, we had things left on the bus, the bus was missed etc, but actually, those things helped him get more organised in the long run. For sixth form we moved house and he went to the local school. He has to leave about an hour and a half after he used to, which I thought would be great, but no - he's never on time! Because there's no deadline for leaving, there's nothing to miss... He also got into the bad habit of coming home in frees, having naps etc, which has been disastrous for him. He needs routine and external structure. Obviously this aspect is sixth form specific.

The grammar school was smaller and much more on the ball with things; they kept on top of him in a way the comp hasn't. He was the only one with ADHD In his year in grammar and he got special attention/rules in a way he hasn't at the comp.

Also, after lockdown, the grammar added an extra 'bottom set' for those who needed to catch up - a smaller group, going more slowly. Ds asked to go in that group; he was able to sit on his own (no distractions) and go at his speed. It helped him to be near the bottom in the cohort (it didn't worry him at all) whereas I feel he might have been lost in the middle at a comp.

Grammar all the way- better to be at the bottom there with support (less competition for it), than state and one of many needing help.

Should say I have a child, with ADHD, who gets the bus to a grammar.

I think parents have a tendency to underestimate how their individual child will feel in the socioeconomic (ethnic, if applicable) and academic environment of a school.
Personally I suspect that for most kids being bottom or struggling in a competitive academic environment must be hell, at a time of life when peer group status is everything. Even those not obviously struggling can suffer constant anxiety about maintaining class position.
Much better a decent comprehensive where the 'status' options are likely to be broader - and being one of the brainy nerdy kids will definitely be one of them. Teachers would most likely be all over them too.
But without knowing schools or child in question, obviously this is your decision!

Can I ask why you are choosing? Surely it’s your child’s choice which school he goes to, under your guidance of course. Enabling him to make his own informed decisions will stand him in good stead for life.

Speaking here as parent of older primary school child- this is what my plan is. I will take her to all the open days and support her in weighing up the pros and cons.

You are very lucky to have such great options.

Interesting. I would never let my child make the decision on which school they attend. At least not up to 16.

In my book it's one of the biggest life-outcome decisions that at age 10, 11, they are simply not equipped to make. The school our children attends also has significant, daily, impact and repercussions on family life. I would take their view into account of course, but not put the decision on the shoulders of a child.

I agree, I wonder what other “informed” choices Wannabehealthier allows her dd to make.

An eleven year old has an entire lifetime of making their own choices to look forward to, so by all means let them make choices , but start with the small ones, wallpaper in their room, pizza toppings, hair length, then build up to slightly bigger choices, but don’t give them autonomy over the ones that will possibly decide the course of their life, that is a parental responsibility, and shouldn’t be delegated to a child.

I’d go for the state school. Local and easy to get too. Dark winter mornings and evenings can be hard for 11 year olds travelling.

Regards to the grammar you might not be in the catchment area plus I know that some parents are now looking towards grammar schools instead of private schools because of the VAT. So I imagine the grammars will be aware of this and possibly raising their entry level. Each grammar has its own entry point and they are usually highly sought after. Find out the catchment area, how many kids are actually given places and what the entry point is - it’s not a given he will get a space. Have a chat with your sons teacher to see if he would even cope with a grammar IF he did get a place as it’s pretty full on

Fair enough!

Guess I’m just going by my own experience - I decided my secondary school after visiting a few options with my mum. My parents were not involved in making the decision about GCSE options, sixth form or university- I visited them by train independently. I definitely talked about it all but I was the one making the decisions.

I’m from a working class background so maybe it’s cultural. My parents wouldn’t have had much of a a clue anyway, my dad left school at 13!

Otherwise I don’t think my kids make any more decisions than in other families. I’m definitely not a permissive parent.
I went to university, have a professional job and value education highly. I’m sure my kids will find their own path in life - I see my job as developing their social skills, emotional intelligence and independence.

Our most local school is outstanding but I suspect my DD will choose the other one!