If you’re charged VAT will you remove your child from their private school? I’m v stressed!

[Liikklu]

We won’t be able to pay the increase. Only hope is asking grandparents for the shortfall which we don’t want to do. Anyone else in a similar boat? Do you think it will literally be a 20% increase on fees or will schools absorb some of it? Our school has said they will address the matter ‘if and when’ it applies.

Indeed the fact that the independents that remain after this, will become even more elite is being forgotten entirely.

My cousin attends a private school because it was discovered during primary school how gifted she is and she would thrive better in a school where the classes are smaller and the students get more attention from the teaching staff.

She was offered the choice by my auntie and uncle of going to a mainstream school along with a her friends or going to a private school and she chose private. Both sets of grandparents have contributed towards her school fees because they can see how much good being in a private school is doing her. I'm not sure if the VAT is going up where she goes.

Her brother finishes primary school this year and has been offered the same private education as his sister but he has decided to go secondary mainstream because that's where his friends are going and my Aunt and Uncle have no issue with that.

I don't understand why there are so many bitter comments on the subject of private education. If it's something that will enable your child to have a better future then I for one am all for it. Especially as mainstream schools in the current climate are over filled and the waiting lists to get in are long. You could also end up with a placement that your child doesn't even want.

Most state schools are decent

I am sorry but I really don't think that this is true at all. I wish it was.

I'm sorry you experienced that.

Dc have additional needs too and they are absolutely thriving at our state schools. Their exam results are excellent but they are also happy in themselves which is equally important to me.

The proof is in the pudding I guess.

DC2 could not think of anything worse. But some people are desperate enough to pay.

You can look up public finance data on schools.

I picked Tiffin School in London as the most selective grammar in the country.

Its total expenditure in 2022/23 was £9.8 million. It has 1419 pupils.

£9.8 million divided by 1419 is £6906 per pupil

So schools are being expected to function on £7k per pupil.

When people have been complaining about schools being massively underfunded for 14 years under the conservatives, you really thought they were getting £15k per pupil per year, not that far off private schools??

@driedapricots101

youre going to sell your house?! That is some sacrifice!

I’m sorry, I have not yet been able to find the SEN data for 2013 as it seems to be elsewhere in the DfE’s statistics.

However, FSM for Starmer’s children’s school in 2013 was 18.6%; EAL 30%.

I'm not worrying about it yet. There are so many variables. I won't be able to afford a fee increase if my child's school passes it on to us but as this is the only school that can meet his SEN I don't have much choice at the moment.
I imagine I will have to revisit his EHCP and see if the local authority will fund the place instead, they don't have any alternative provision. There are many children in our school who are fully funded on EHCPs, I don't think people realise that is something that happens. Private schools are not just full of rich people.

To actually answer the OP's question- I think we would try and absorb the increase for Ds1. He will not thrive at another school- he barely chugs along in the one he is in and they have exceptional pastoral care. DS2 is must more confident and adaptable and would possibly be okay. Ds1 has 4 years left and DS2 6 years, DS2 actually has a part bursary. Our school have already said they may not be able to continue with bursaries if there is an exodus of full fee paying students and their finances are stretched.

I'm not sure actually. So far I am head in the sand about it all a bit.

A pp said that surely the proposal would have to get through the House of Lords as well though - yet Labour were talking about abolishing the HoL if they got in. While apparently they would have some sort of second tier - what that looks like is as yet unclarified. Obviously it would be convenient for any government if it does not have to have a second tier of checks and balances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63864428

no - we won’t remove our children. None of the friends we have in the school will remove their children either. I have one friend who might consider it (her child has SEN) but I think she will probably do everything she can to not move said child - they really have flourished in the private school their in (lots of bullying in the state school)

Zerozerozero1
If anybody knows about education, it’s Keir Starmer. His family have worked in state schools for years

Have they? I think I read that his wife was a parent governor at the primary school his children attended. Starmer's wife was a pupil at a private school in London when she was younger.

he used to regularly come and help/speak at state schools when he was DPP

I hope he caught the tube;

Keir Starmer put £2000-a-week chauffeur driven car on expenses while head of CPS.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-expenses-chauffeur-driven-car-b2319779.html

Sorry, should have added for context - in 2013, average FSM eligibility for all primaries was 19.2% (secondary was 16.3%). EAL for the school was, then as now, well above national average.

In fairness the Oratory is a specifically Catholic school with a mixture of students. My nephews went there and had to undergo a very strict faith-based assessment to get in - they certainly don't live in a very expensive house, but do come from a deeply devout family who have given a lot of service to the Church.

I don't think I'd characterise it as hypocrisy that Starmer's children are in good state schools. Most politicians are relatively wealthy and will live in relatively wealthy areas, and like all parents want their children to be well educated. In terms of 'gaming' any system, the charitable status claimed by private schools is far more unseemly.

There can be a pretty derogatory tone from private school parents on MN about state schools in general, and private school parents have done themselves no favours in saying that they're motivated by wanting the best for their children, or that they've made sacrifices - inevitably that suggests parents with children in state schools care less about their children or haven't sacrificed enough.

Choosing a state school can also mean a strong commitment to the local area and community, wanting your children to mix with a broad range of people, and down to the character of the child - if they're studious and motivated and you're involved with their learning, that can go a long way and there may be other advantages such as (eg) Oxbridge colleges trying to widen their admissions for more state educated entrants.

When you look at Ofsted's stats, of the 3,332 secondary schools inspected, 557 are ranked outstanding with 2,122 rated as good. That's a pretty high proportion (c.80% either good or outstanding). I think that's worth keeping in mind if people fear that moving their child to a state school will inevitably be a bad move, particularly if they reflect on the money they'll save on fees that can be used for tutoring or otherwise augmenting their children's education.

I have not RTFT (but have contributed to a few others on this topic).

I have 2 children in a prep school, a huge factor for choosing this over state was the reliable and comprehensive wraparound care so that I could pursue my career as a doctor. Whilst we can afford prep school, paying secondary fees would always have been a stretch for us and the threat of VAT resulted in our decision to move to catchment of an excellent part-selective secondary school.

We will suck up the increase whilst they are in primary and reduce expenditure elsewhere for a year or two (depending on when policy comes in) and then I will be cutting my work hours in half as we won't need the extra income for fees and I can do without the stress. Spectacular own goal from where I am standing - gov will pay for my children's education, they will lose my income tax and NHS will lose consultant sessions.

We are one of several families at our school who have already moved and others have similar intentions. Our school used to send upwards of 90% of pupils onto private secondaries; this year just half of Y6 are remaining in the private sector for secondary. I can only see this proportion dropping further and further.

Your experience is of one elite school and whose pupils are unlikely to be impacted by this. It is the smaller, cheaper private schools and their pupils that will suffer. Your old school will just become more elitist as a result of this policy. It will do nothing to improve (b) or (c) in your list.

I am happy for you that your children are happy and supported in their local school. Many of the parents who are expressing concerning are those that removed their DC from state schools that weren’t supporting them. Is it any wonder that they don’t want them to go back.

And no, we shouldn’t just accept every policy that a Government introduces even if we vote for them. That would be a very dangerous precedent…

And this only goes to show that the problems in many state schools lie far deeper than a simple question of funding. Some schools manage to produce excellent outcomes with fewer resources. This is precisely why the policy of taxing private school fees isn’t going magically improve state schools, even if it did lead to a large tax receipt (which it won’t).

One can only hope so!

Tiffin manages to produce excellent outcomes by only taking kids who are going to produce excellent outcomes. That's not rocket science.

In fairness the Oratory is a specifically Catholic school with a mixture of students. My nephews went there and had to undergo a very strict faith-based assessment to get in - they certainly don't live in a very expensive house, but do come from a deeply devout family who have given a lot of service to the Church

Is this where Starmer sends his kids? He is an atheist...

that's exactly what's happening here as well for many families in our school

I just saw this too, I think only the Tories are in favour of keeping the HoL as is.
Would labour get to abolish the HoL and replace with a second tier ‘senate’ before they push through VAT on school fees bill? Wouldn’t they have the push any proposed changes to the HoL through the HoL?!
I don’t really know too much so maybe I am wrong. But they surely could amend the hell out of any bill they didn’t like that the HoC tried to push through?

wages?? interesting choice of word for someone so keen to promote private schools.

I went to an Outstanding school. It’s still outstanding. It failed me and it’s failing my goddaughter now. It would definitely be a bad move for some DC to be moved to that school. It really isn’t as black and white as a school being “outstanding” or not.

The social contract is fragile. High tax contributors rarely use any public services - most pay for private healthcare, schools etc and yet are pulverised by yet more taxes to pay for services they never use. Labour will bring in even more ways to penalise, and there will be a point when the public might simply choose to refuse, en masse, like the poll tax days.

It needs to pay to actually work. There needs to be clear advantages to do so otherwise what is the point. We can all just give up. Sit in the garden and claim copious benefits that Labour will pay for with its magic money tree.