If you’re charged VAT will you remove your child from their private school? I’m v stressed!

[Liikklu]

We won’t be able to pay the increase. Only hope is asking grandparents for the shortfall which we don’t want to do. Anyone else in a similar boat? Do you think it will literally be a 20% increase on fees or will schools absorb some of it? Our school has said they will address the matter ‘if and when’ it applies.

@Bululu No it’s about equlity.

Oh, and for those who think this is a great idea, assume a school charges £20K fees, assuming a full 20% on the whole fee, lets say £24K, so £4K to the government.

If charlies parents can't afford it and take him out, pop him in a state secondary, where the per pupil capitation is £15K. therefore instead of making £4K they have just lost £15K

It doesn't take long before you don't break even and put huge pressure on state provision.

@Karensalright ok I already wished you well and good luck with that.

£7460.

That's like a term at some private schools.

But someone upthread was suggesting that private schools might have already cut their budgets to the bone and be unable to make any further cuts, which does make you wonder what they are spending all the money on.

I'm baffled by the endless handwringing threads on here.

My children go to private school - with fairly average fees-;and so do most of my friends children. I don't know anyone with kids at private school who doesn't drive a nice car, have several holidays a year, live in a decent house and afford other luxuries (hobbies, nice clothes etc).

I don't know if it's a very vocal minority who really are stretched, or people just perceive that they can't afford the change because it might mean putting less into their pension/downgrading their car etc. either way it feels really tone deaf (maybe that's just because I spent a few years as a struggling single mum when my children were tiny and before my career took off, and I had to skip meals and buy their clothes from charity shops, so I feel like some peoples perception of struggle comes from a real lack of awareness of the real world)

Seems to me that private school parents who are self-funding education should receive the state contribution of 6k, to off-set the VAT? That way each child receives what they are entitled to, these are the services that we pay our taxes for, and currently they are being un-claimed. The state should receive VAT contributions on the difference. Such a plan would save small independent private school’s from going under, prevent state/ grammar admissions being overwhelmed and allow parents to make the best choices for their children - with no judgement from others.

Where on earth did you get £15k from? That's mad. £7460.

We, state grammar school, academy, get £15K per year, that covers everything, some schools get less but benefit from centralised services.

That doesn't happen when you pay for a private healthcare. If you start saying that people can claim back taxes for things that they don't use, where does that end? People with no kids wanting that money too?

Eh?

The subject to which I was responding concerned private school parents getting a refund from the gvt based on state school place/s not used but paid for. You implied that would be £1 refund. I corrected you and said it would be £8,000 per year.

Wrt your comment ‘Not hard to see why the quality gap between state and private education is so huge, is it?’, no it isn’t. No one said it was. I suggest if you wish to fix that problem - everyone pays much more tax in order that all state schools provide the same quality of education that most private schools do.

You could have a fixed tax, same for everyone. Keep it FAIR and EQUAL. Say £100 per month per person. Does that suit?

On teachers rather than TA’s.

Quite. Or healthy people wanting a rebate because they haven't had any surgery this year. Or people who don't go to parks wanting their money back because they don't use the parks

The state pays for things because of the benefit it brings the country

“…so I feel like some peoples perception of struggle comes from a real lack of awareness of the real world”

@WindsurfingDreams A bit ironic when your own world view is limited by the fact that you don’t know anyone at private school who doesn’t drive a nice car or go on fancy holidays. The world extends beyond the experiences of you and your friends. You only need to read this thread to understand that there are lots of people who find themselves stretched thin because they choose to privately educate their kids for a whole host of reasons, including poor state provision or to address SEN.

For some families to raise any money for school fees it is almost double when you have to discount the income tax. Same with the VAT the family would need to raise almost double of the net amount to be paid.

What kind of stupid question is that?!! Crack?!
22 years in schools. There is a definite difference the past 10 years.
10 years ago we could afford TAs in every class- sometimes more than one. Now, the need is greater but we can’t employ enough TAs due to budgets.
Many schools can only afford recently qualified teachers now too. It’s quite unusual to see a job advert not asking for ECTs.

Lots do. It’s not uncommon for grandparents to pay because they WANT to.

It’s also very hard to recruit TAs now, even if schools have the money. No one wants to do the job any more when it is so poorly paid.

Both put me in mind of cheerful vacuum cleaners.

Not sure it is hypocrisy. Everyone including politicians will be aiming to do the very best for their kids. And you don't get to be the leader of any party without being ambitious. So Starmer and Blair did the best for their kids within those parameters. If people believe more middle class parents in a particular state school will improve standards and see that as a good thing - that also proves that they recognise the ethos of these parents as a value they desire for their own kids.

For those with kids at private school, even if they are forced to go to state due to VAT are still in an incredible position - can afford top tier tutoring or the best schools in great catchment. Most importantly, can work much less or even go down to 1 income family and therefore provide additional parental support for their kids. And given the need to widen participation from state schools at Oxbridge and other top unis, they will also have no issues there and likely significant advantage from wide-ranging experiences. This may not have been possible when on the edge of affordability. Moving kids isn't fun but I think the panic really isn't necessary and families on the margins of private school will likely benefit the most/thrive from this policy

Private highs near us are £15-20k a year. Plus the massive investment in tutoring to get in - at £50 a week for a year or two. No way I could afford that for my two. But I can see what it would buy them ( not academically just all the other stuff as our state comp is brilliant on a shoe string)

Irrespective, the govt has just lost money as it now has the burden of educating pupils transferring into state schools.

My kids attend public school and we have never been near financially well off enough to send our kids to private school but the cost of living is effecting us all. Just because you send your kids to private school does not mean you have unlimited funds. Higher earners have higher mortgages. Higher childcare costs and school fees. 20% is a massive hike! Hopefully this is not something that comes into play anytime soon. Please try not to worry too much. I understand other commenters on here having little sympathy considering they are already struggling but it's all relative. I hope you've had some useful advice here from people in the same boat. Money is such a weird one to talk about, especially from those "better off" because they want to keep the illusion that they are. There is no shame in starting that conversation.

That doesn't mean they should be asked to.

If they say no because they can't afford it or don't want to, it's likely to make them feel guilty.

Fine if they offer, but the OP shouldn't ask.

Exactly, rather than a gain, they make a loss for every pupil who has to move - and in many areas the state schools are run down, not big enough to cope, with dwindling staff and low morale.

I'd wager many private staff wouldn't move across, and if the gov't take over closing private schools as going concerns, that is essentially re-introducing tripartite, which was regarded as unfair!

Depends on your relationship. I’d always want my kids to be able to ask me anything.