How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

@greenblue321
Also, think about families with 3 plus kids in private. 3 kids at 25k a year - 75k

This is laughable. Anyone who can shell out £75k for school fees year after year does not deserve sympathy. They can add a bit more to the mortgage or something to meet the VAT. The vast majority of people earn nothing like this. As a teacher working in the state sector, I was on £35k and paying a large part of that on a mortgage on a small house. Having £75k to throw at school fees annually is most people’s definition of wealthy.

EHCPs take a long time because the schools/LA delay as much as possible but it doesn't take 3 years even if you have to appeal assessment and final. IPSEA have useful information including statutory timelines and template letters.

Some parents have no choice but go down this route as circumventing it by paying school fees is simply not an option.

My guess is they won't

Once they have their own Chancellor they will see the cost of doing so does not outweigh what it would bring in.

Those kids🤣🤣🤣
So you are one of the spiteful.

As someone with a SEN child (severe dyslexia and ADHD) in a state school, I would really recommend that anyone in the private or state system with a child who has or might have SEN gets going on an EHCP as soon as possible.

There is literally no help whatsoever in most state schools anymore - they are completely swamped. DD gets exam access arrangements and that is it. I have done everything I can to get her help and support and it only happens if I pay for it. School have nothing to offer.

We don't have an EHCP and I wish I had applied for one years ago now (Covid messed things up for us in terms of seeing the reality before it was too late).

I wonder whether they might do it, but not at 20%, maybe 5%. So they can say, see they've done it, but effect relatively few people and not cost them too much.

Austerity hit all sectors after the Labour government left government.
One of the reasons we initially chose private primary education was the condition of the state system in the mid 2000s.
We planned to go back to state for secondary but the school was a better fit for DS who was both sporty and very bright, he also has ADHD tendencies which did not need addressing in the private sector due to smaller class size and strong behaviour policies and support.

Adding another perspective.

We had to move our DD (diagnosed ADHD and dyscalculia) from our local outstanding state to private in Yr9 because the school had absolutely no resources to support her. All their focus was on to best and worst performers - the well-behaved kids in the middle were entirely ignored until she was so overwhelmed by the work and the environment she was diagnosed with anxiety and sat at home refusing to leave her room. Two years earlier she'd been the definition of joyfulness. She was also one of five SEN kids in her year who moved to private for essentially the same reasons. I am grateful every day we could make this move for her - she has absolutely thrived in her new school with small classes, extra support, and opportunities to boost her self esteem outside of the classroom.

This year our younger DD didn't get a place at the same school due to catchment shrinking to 0.6miles due to affluent parents buying up houses near the good state when they would previously have paid for private. Younger DD now also going to private as allocated a school in special measures.

Here's the new perspective.

In order to pay for DD1's private fees, I gave up a job I loved as a clinician working in community adolescent mental health, for a much better paid role in pharmaceuticals because I needed to earn enough to pay the school fees. This year my DH will give up his civil service job in the prison sector for better pay as a consultant to pay for DD2's fees. None of this is what's best for society.

I know we're extraordinarily privileged to be able to buy good education for our girls, but I wish we'd been able to keep both girls at state, and both our jobs in the public sector which we care so deeply about. I don't blame Labour for the VAT rise - if it genuinely helps the state schools then I'm all in, but the debate is not as simple as vilifying rich people crying over having to cash their investments.

This indeed.

It won’t make money and won’t help anyone at all.

But it will hurt a small number of people.

it’s a vote winner, aimed at the kind of person who has thoughts as sophisticated as “rich people ought to pay for everything”

What is undeniable is that both the state and private children this so massively going to impact initially have been screwed over in the last 4/5 years with Covid and the shit show of education provision during that period.

They will continue to be shafted as even if on 8th July £1.5 billion is raised (that’s one figure floating about…) there is not the infrastructure for it to be immediately deployed. So who is going to miss out here? The same cohort of students that have missed out.

the only ones who will benefit will be in 5-10 years.

Agree - this cohort deserve to have the rest of their education stabilised.

I am pretty certain the next joy will be a massive increase in university fees just in time to clobber the current Y10/11s

The only people who will actually benefit from any of this will be lawyers.

’but the debate is not as simple as vilifying rich people crying over having to cash their investments.’

That is exactly how ‘simple’ it is for some people… Speaks volumes but there we are..

To answer the OP question, not sure if already addressed in all the pages; legally they can backdate to the day they come to power (ie 4 July).

I’m currently scrambling to move money from investments to pay in advance - which I appreciate may not work if they change the law on timing of when vat is levied but there’s c.£20k at stake so it’s worth a punt.

Our school have tried to address this by encouraging parents to pay for the next year in advance. Seemed very complex and had concerns over what would happen if they went under so haven't done this, wonder if a good option now. It is a small independent with a high level of SEND and bursaries so not elitist.

It’s a good policy. If you can afford it pay. For the few that can no longer afford it then the state sector will be better funded than before. Win win for the country.

It’s a vote winner because, long term, the state education system will benefit from it.

It's like you haven't read the posts above.

Depends on what 'a few' is. All the maths is based on a max of 7% kids moving. If that's actually 10% then the remaining ones still paying won't be paying enough money to cover the state school places - resulting in overall less funding. Not counting any extra expenditure for SEN.

That's quite a risk. The 7% is a complete guess based on small incrementing fees over the years, not a 20% jump.

And it's all short term. Significantly fewer kids will start private school in future reception intakes so any overall gain will quickly whittle away to negative.

Long term, and very possibly short term, the state sector will have more kids and the same funding.

Pretty much the same as my life then, but without the school fees.
I don’t have a strong view either way, and I get that you don’t want to pay more, but just out of interest why do you think VAT should not be charged on a business, as it would be for any other profit-making business?

How very gracious of you. Are you unaware that most kids with SN are educated in the mainstream sector?

I don’t think you understand VAT. It’s not the business that pays VAT, it’s the consumer. The business merely collects it for HMRC. Plus a lot of things are VAT exempt, e.g. cakes.

or from accessing provision which the state can’t or won’t make, which enables my son to cope with school and thrive in what he’s good at.
He and kids like him exist and they matter. And their lives are hard enough. And now they may be worse.

@jennylamb1 I will prepay 5 years for one dc at one school as the head said they’d stress tested the finances and could bear a 20% drop in roll (and they are massively massively oversubscribed).

I will only prepay 1 year for other dc at other school as it’s much smaller (huge proportion of SEN, like my dc) and therefore vulnerable to closure.

For school one I’m happy with the risk of being an unsecured creditor, the risk reward calculus for school 2 doesn’t work. Really depends on the school and your circumstances.

Are they going to put VAT on private tuition fees or will this loophole for generally wealthier parents remain too?