How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

The issue that no one is talking about is that whether you agree or not on moral grounds about applying VAT to education, the Labour policy is ill thought out because it's based on a flawed assumption that it will raise the money necessary to fund improvements to state schools and when it doesn't (because schools will claim back some VAT, some parents will leave independent education and some schools will close) then they haven't any back up plans for where the funding will come from. So it's a lose lose for the state and private sectors.

Quite. And so much more than you mention. The fact the ones moving from private are now using tax payers money for state spaces, £8k a year? That wasn’t being spent before. Then taking up places in desirable states schools (because they can eg. Move), so those who would have got spaces miss out and go to a local failing school. Well done Labour . Pushing everyone down raising no one up.

From Labours website:

• Higher standards in schools.Recruiting 6,500 more teachers to ensure every child is taught by a specialist, paid for by ending tax breaks for private schools.

🙈 That’s just embarrassing. No supporting analysis whatsoever.

• How much will be ‘raised’ by ‘ending tax breaks for private schools’ (aka beginning VAT on an educational service),
• Where exactly will that x amount go?
• Where are the 6500 teachers coming from?
• how much will it cost the tax payer for each child moving from private to state?
• How does that compare to the amount ‘raised’ through VAT? 🤔
• where are all the spaces for the children transferring?
• will those children who might have gotten into a good school, but now won’t (because wealthier parents have moved / tutored) be forced to take a tax payer funded taxi every day to a failing school further away, because it’s the only one with space?
• Why do you think it’s ok to widen the equality gap? With this policy the very wealthy won’t notice, the wealthyish will carry on with a bit less, the people scraping by will be penalised and their children have to move schools. Levelling down. Labours favourite plan.

It was a Labour who started closing grammar schools.
It was Labour who introduced university fees.
It is Labour who are beginning the process of making VAT on educational service acceptable.

It is just a wealth tax of which there will be many more to come. I will have to pay for my children. I don’t disagree with wealth taxes per se. I think we tax income enough. Maybe a small CGT on your main residence. It’s all to look forward to.

A.S.A.P I hope , let the private schools reduce their profit problem solved.

Will it be possible for school fees to be VAT exempt for children with disabilities? Equipment is isn't it?
I mean if you are only getting (buying) something because of a disability...
My child has an EHCP in a state school, I sympathise with all parents trying to find a manageable route through education for any child with SEN.

Most private schools are run as charities and therefore don’t make a profit. They are not doling out money to shareholders.

Where are all these kids going to go? Do Labour have a policy to build hundreds of new schools as well?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985

"Most private schools are run as charities and therefore don’t make a profit. They are not doling out money to shareholders."

About half apparently

There are 20.000 mainstream state schools in England. Even if this policy raised the money that Labour are predicting (which it won't), and even if they could suddenly find 6,500 new teachers to recruit (which isn't looking easy given how many are leaving), that's a third of a new teacher per school. Even if you restrict that to secondary schools it's two teachers per school. My local (very good) school is currently advertising over 20 teaching vacancies. Anyone who thinks this policy will achieve specialist teaching for every child (or in fact any demonstrable impact) is dreaming.

This.

I’m relieved that my youngest only has another year left at school (state). I feel for those at private schools and those at state schools because this policy is going to negatively impact both.

It’ll bring the votes in because people are spiteful. Many are so caught up in that spite that they won’t realise that it will end up being a negative for them.

I’ve always voted labour but this is one policy which is making me rethink because although it won’t directly impact my kids, it will impact others. Labour are either stupid, which I don’t believe, or they are deliberately misleading voters as to the consequences of this policy. No surprises I suppose, they may be a better option than the Tories but they’re still politicians.

I don’t have a strong opinion either way on this issue but I don’t like the idea that some children will have to move schools because of it. I think that’s unfair and they should have some kind of phased introduction, or an exemption if you’re already in secondary, or something.

Yes, yes and yes.
Many mumsnetters don’t have a clue what life is like for most people.
There should not be better education for the privileged few. If there is at least tax it to bolster public funds to help everybody else.
If the rich had to use state schools then state schools would improve.

As soon as possible hopefully. It’s a good policy.

I agree @BiggerBoat1 , I say that as a past parent of one of theses schools. They are dreadful institutions with far too many unqualified teachers who are not fit for purpose. They focus on the children of certain parents who must be kept happy, this is usually because they are well connected or make large donations to the school. Dreadful behavior ( by staff and boys) is swept under the carpet with apologies made decades later.

I wish that Labour would go further, still at least the Tories will be gone.

This sums it up

And it’s this combination of envy and ignorance that is why Labour are pushing ahead with a policy that will backfire.

Blackcats7 - you do realise that if the VAT policy comes in that schools like Eton will be able to reclaim all the VAT they’ve spent on big building projects - sports centres, science blocks, theatres. Etc etc

They will then use the money they get back from the government aka the taxpayer to offset the costs for their parents. So you will be paying!

I also know exactly what happens when “rich” parents use state schools - you buy in best location, you tutor for grammar, then you use all the cash you are not spending on school fees for enrichment activities - nice holidays, music lessons, extra tutoring to ensure top grades.

What specifically is good about it? It’s very poorly thought out.

Agreed, sooner the better it's a policy that is way overdue.

What I am finding particularly galling is having a child in Y12, I don't really have the option to move my child to another school this summer that PP are talking about because my DC is half way through A levels.
So I think it's spectacularly unfair for those of us who have budgeted carefully for next academic year to suddenly hike fees up by so much. Yes of course I'm privileged, but I haven't got a magic money tree and conjuring a huge amount more with limited notice is going to be hard and "just moving" to state school is not really an option for those part way through exam years

I already pay £12k tax a year (across income, VAT, NI, capital gains). I shouldn’t have to even pay even more to bolster a service I don’t use. If they want more money to bolster state schools they could do things like increase corporation tax, make companies take on the running of large academies (as happens in Asia), or cancel the ridiculously expensive contracts a lot of them are trapped in for gardening / food etc.

Would you say that if you were the parent of a child with SN who ended up having to move him out of the only school you’d found to meet his needs?
do we just not exist, or something? Or do we just not matter?

‘It’ll bring the votes in because people are spiteful. Many are so caught up in that spite that they won’t realise that it will end up being a negative for them.’

Yep.

When I hear private school parents complaining about the cost, I always want to say "Well, get a better paid job" or "Could you take in ironing?" Or "Why did you have a child when you couldn't afford one?"

Or is that only good advice for poor people?

How is that a good policy?

The money it will bring will barely cover the addition spending when pupils move to state schools.

It makes no economic sense whatsoever. It's only brought out of hate and envy.

What’s your advice for the people who, like me, went private because the state wouldn’t meet my child’s SN, oh wise and compassionate one??
im going to keep at this until these people acknowledge we exist. Or until I go mad with anger and frustration. By all means place bets on which will happen first.