How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

You’ve really missed the point here… it’s not about the “rich” and the “poor”… your idea of rich may be vastly different to someone else’s idea of rich. It’s about the concept of taxing education … education is not chocolate or alcohol … it’s not a luxury… it’s a need. There are other ways to raise money for schools… why not have a small rate increase to everyone’s income tax… or better yet why not tax those who earn over say £100k a year and send their kids to state school. Oh no wait… let’s just assume every private school parent has spare money and let them pay for my child’s education. And to say state schools aren’t full is a bit ludicrous don’t you think? Sure some will have space and some won’t… it’s a mixed bag. Also did you you know there aren already 2000 teacher vacancies right now… so how is adding 6500 vacancies going to help? I was really saddened by your post… it’s just a reminder of the stereotyping and Barrie’s these types of police’s before. I hope you teach your children to not judge bills by their cover … and to judge by people’s actions and humility. And yes my one and only daughter goes to private… and no we don’t have flash cars or a big house … and my wife is a state school teacher … and does deal with SEN children … and thankfully her school does a good job but that isn’t the same for every school where sadly they have to use the private system for their children.

This is ironically how labour are selling it… Liz Kendall stated in an interview that because private school parents have dealt with fee increases each year then this shouldn’t matter. Sadly it’s a policy that appeals to the masses like the original poster .. it’s a sad reflection of our country when compared to others

Exempting children with an EHCP from VAT would be extremely difficult according to VAT experts. VAT is on the product or service, not the purchaser. Making different purchasers (parent of child with EHCP vs child without) pay different levels of VAT would at odds with how VAT is charged at present and open to legal challenges.

i would never have accused Liz Kendall of being the sharpest knife in the drawer but even by her abysmal standards, this is asinine. god what has happened to he Labour Party.

The proposal to attach exemption to the consumer rather than the provider of the service fundamentally upends the VAT regime. It’s not clear that they actually understand this.
i think they may end up inventing another tax for education rather than redrawing the VAT regime. But we don’t know the extent to which they understand their own proposal. Either they don’t or they are being exceptionally covert about it, which is very unfair to those whose futures may depend on this.

You clearly don’t have a clue… the majority of my friends earn more than I do but they use state schools… why don’t we tax people who earn above a certain threshold and use state? Because that won’t grab votes. This is just another Brexit… false promises not based on any evidence or logical thought but it will appeal to the masses who don’t bother considering all sides of the arguments just because all private school parents are rich much like all
immigrants had a negative impact on society. Sad.

You are a teacher and yet you can’t see that the sums labour have conjured up don’t make any sense? Also this isn’t about who earns what it’s about the principle taxing education! And my wife is a state school teacher so I’m well versed in the condition we find ourselves in.

I wonder how many people voted Conservative for the last 4 elections, knowing what they were doing to the state system, but now horrified they might have to use it.

I have a question, apologies if it’s already been asked/covered. If (more likely when) Labour put VAT on fees, and the inevitable car crash happens… any extra funding disappears into the abyss and manifesto promises amount to nothing, is it feasible that any new future government may be able to remove the VAT requirement again in 4/8 years time?

Yes they could. Governments can choose where to apply VAT. Ie it went onto heating bills, it came off tampons.

There will be no net income from the taxation. That is the issue. I would totally be able to suck this up if I felt that there would be a positive result at the end of it. There won't. It only takes 8-10% private school kids moving to state to reduce the net income to 0. I know it's the Daily Fail but yesterday the media estimated 40% will move!

So it is ideological with no economic benefit and seems to have unleashed a lot of meanness. It is utter bullshit.

Thank you. Knowing how much the political parties like bitching and sniping at each others’ policies this is likely to become a game of vote winner ping pong which will cause even more disruption to the education system, not to mention house prices and catchment area demographics.

I totally agree. I have children in private school (and yes we are some of the ones that choose to send them there, rather than for any SEN need etc). Our local state schools are woeful. However I have long thought that in an ideal world there should be no private system and life would be much better if all children were educated equally. However that is not realistic so we choose private. As you say, if there was any merit at all in imposing VAT, and the state education suddenly improves as a result then I genuinely would be all for it. As a lifelong Conservative voter I actually relish the idea of the opportunity for change under Labour, however the message this policy is giving out, ie, despite all the evidence to the contrary we are still going to go ahead with this plan just because we can and because we hate all perceived privilege makes me very very angry.

Yes but it’s unusual for taxes to be taken off things. Governments get used to the income and taking VAT off private school fees when it’s been in place 8-10 years is unlikely to be a big vote winner.

Despite what MN threads and the right wing press imply this is a very niche issue.

I highly doubt there will be any income derived from this policy, at best a headache (admittedly that headache will be Labour’s), at worst a real term loss. So for a future government to pledge to remove it seems quite likely to my mind.

That's true. If the losses are high enough that Labour can't spin it, they might take the VAT back off as an income-generating measure rather than to get votes (as France did with wealth tax, after it lost them so much money). Although I think the damage will be irreversible unfortunately.

I think you are clutching at straws.

I think you misunderstand where I’m coming from. This isn’t me being hopeful that VAT will be removed further down the line for personal reasons, this is me showing concern about the future ramifications for the education system and a whole (ie even more uncertainty, to-ing and fro-ing).

@Boater "Despite what MN threads and the right wing press imply this is a very niche issue"

I keep having to remind myself of this. Apart from anything else, I have to keep believing that people don't always vote exclusively out of unenlightened self interest.

It is not a niche issue because it will kill an entire sector and hundreds and hundreds of smaller schools will close and only the big ones will survive. And they will be very elitist. Playground of the super rich only. So let’s at least be honest about it. That is all I am asking for.

If properly planned and with the right will to invest in the state sector, I am all for it. But not like this. Nobody should feel they have to pay for their child’s education. There are plenty of people who have felt obliged to either because their DC has not coped in the state sector, or some family obligation type thinking or their local school wasn’t up to scratch or they needed the wrap around element of private school. By doing this you won’t just get to those who are rich and would have done it anyway. They will continue anyway. It is everyone in the former group this policy gets and that is why it is absurd. In addition, I am upset about messing with education straight after a pandemic and into a child mental health crisis. They could not have picked a worse time to do this.

I keep having to remind myself that people aren’t all mean spirited because they’ve bought into a lie that education is a privilege and should attract a luxuries tax when the rest of the world doesn’t agree and only Brexit has made this possible.

If it's not a privilege how come most of the population doesn't have access to it?

Things that aren't privileges are usually free for all.

For most, the whole point of private education is buying a better experience in education so their children have help getting ahead which isn't available to all children.

@CurlewKate - I have been on here for 15 years like many others (using different user names). MN is always right in the end- we were right about Brexit, Covid school closures being excessive etc etc. And we are right about this one whether some people like it or not! The whole of the press is raising an issue and what is more there is a conflict of interest in the teaching unions because they are also meant to represent private school teachers. The whole thing is a shambles and a mess.

The reason some of us keep commenting on these threads is so that there will be future accountability if it all pans out just as expected and there will have to be enquiries and those in charge of this will have to take the blame!