How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

Wow. Anecdotal sample much?

@quantmum ah yes Brexit, this being a Brexit benefit allowing us to charge vat on education. But people were lied to about Brexit, they didn’t vote for a clear policy of being worse off.

good for you @quantmum congratulations on your excellent parenting.

Anyone with an ounce of sense was aware Brexit was a bad idea.
good for you @quantmum congratulations on your excellent parenting
Cheers. I thought state school parents are the ones that aren't as dedicated and self sacrificing according to so many private school parents on here?

To clarify, I was talking about Kent County Council creating extra school places in the grammar system by encouraging the opening of more annexes, like the 2 in Sevenoaks. Already an expensive area which has become even more expensive since then. So some funding will have to be made available for this kind of thing.

I think as long as those who are happy with 20 per cent VAT on private school fees are also happy with more kids in state schools and the increased tax burden on the state, then at least there is some sense in their arguments.

However, I doubt it is going to improve state schools in the North and North East. The funding will have to go to those areas with the most exodus from private schools which will be places like London and other parts of the South East where there are a lot of private schools. Which will result in even more regional educational inequality.

Yes but a bad idea isn’t the same as a specific percentage cost increase on a policy with a new tax.

there was no specific new brexit tax in the Brexit campaign.

I’m sure all parents do the best they can for their children.

Cooper77 · Today 17:56
Private schools sicken me. The whole thing is so unfair. It isn't just the better education, it's the confidence, arrogance and sense of entitlement they instill. I have met several products of the private school system, and no matter what other people achieve, they still treat them with a patronizing contempt. It's infuriating. It would be bad enough if the sense of superiority was deserved, but in the vast majority of cases it isn't. The woman who lived opposite me, for example, had been to a private school. She left without doing A-levels, was thick as mince and had never read a serious book in her life. But even after I'd completed a PhD she stillspoke to me as if I was an idiot.

Blimey virtually every stereotype in this short paragraph.
Cooper77 you’ve missed out the bit when your employer’s privately educated children come into the workplace and make you address them as My Noble Liege and shuffle backwards out of the room on your knees.
However since private school produce such thick people and you went to state school and are so superior in every way, then why ban them?

@quantmum yes I am afraid I will. Personally affected by it so yep!

I don't think all of us who went to private school treat others with contempt who did not go there. That is a bit of a generalisation. I think Labour's policy for VAT is quite popular but it may take quite a while to be drafted and to come into force and hopefully schools will find ways to keep fee increases to a minimum.

Unless Labour does something awful in terms of taxing houses in the SE (which it might well) the 20% on school fees is certainly going to have an impact on our family although day fees are more like £20k so even if it were the full 20% that is about £4k per child, a lot but not disastrous. Some schools such as those my relatives went to in Yorkshire fees are closer to £12k a year so the 20% is all the less.

I don't think all of us who went to private school treat others with contempt who did not go there.

On mn it's more the other way round. I see far more contempt for people who choose/went to private schools.

Absolute heh at « sicken me. » if the existence of private schools do this to you what happens when you put the news on? Wall to wall sick bowls chez vous I should think

Pull the other one - so many private school parents are characterising anyone who thinks the tax isn't a bad idea are accusing posters as wanting children to suffer. One poster even said that the government are coming after 'DISABLED CHILDREN' as some children with SEN might be in private schools.

Real children will suffer as a result of this policy, Including children like mine who have Sen that were not met in state. So many, including yourself are dismissive of the impact on children affected. It is callous.

are they the only children suffering? Is it the worst suffering? Probably not, but does it matter? Making these children suffer doesn’t alleviate the suffering of others - it is entirely pointless, and it is vile.

It's not callous - nobody wants any child to suffer but of course there has to be a sense of proportion in this, given that the fees of any child with an EHCP will be exempt from the VAT. Therefore, children with SEN in private schools won't be affected.

However, while we still don't know all the details, what we do know of the plan is that the income from the extra taxation will be allocated to improving counselling and other services in state schools, where children with SEN will be prioritised.

Most Sen children in private do not have EHCPs because they don’t mean much now. Cue the scramble to obtain EHCPs in an already overburdened system where it can take years to resolve an application. As a result, MANY Sen children in private will be affected, as well as the other children who will wait longer.

i have seen nothing about Sen children being prioritised - do you have a source for this? At any rate, the hypothetical tax gain has been allocated about 4x over, so I have little faith as to how it will be used. Assuming there IS a net gain - more recent analysis suggests that it will be far lower than Labour promise and may in fact cost more than it takes in revenue.

Someone suffers through the impact of every government policy. In the last 14 years children of already poor parents have suffered inordinately and significant numbers are living in real poverty - in some areas of the country the numbers are appalling and the worst in Europe, and I don't hear Tory voters bleating on about that EVER. There is no humanity or commitment to social justice amongst Tory MPs or their voters- just self-interest.

tbh instead of getting angry at Labour or whoever, why don't you get angry at the people who run private schools and who have increased their fees 55% in real terms since 2003? Many posters seem to expect the wider population to be super sympathetic - rather unrealistically given the levels of child poverty in the UK - but you should maybe look towards the schools themselves a little more.

My daughter has dyslexia and anxiety but that presumably doesn't qualify for an EHCP. But it is still an extra need and will just put an extra burden on the state system if that's where we end up again.

We don’t know that at all. To the extent this plan raises extra revenue for the government, and it’s by no means clear that it will, it isn’t hypothecated. It will be spent as the government sees fit. Given the other commitments they are making, to maintaining the triple lock etc, it seems to me naive in the extreme to believe that they will commit this money to education. It’s 300 million for the NHS on the side of a bus stuff. Populism for the extremely gullible.

Well I do feel sorry for the children of parents who don't have their paperwork in order / think anyone in support of the VAT is a nasty child-hater who is just jealous and bitter - how do you know it's most SEN children in private schools though?

Look at the third of Labour's ten-point policy document re. the allocation.

If you're paying for school fees, can some of that be directed to private therapy if you feel compelled to move?

Yes - although she doesn't have any therapy at the mo. The senco has just put small interventions in place with the class teacher and it is helping her anxiety. She was in state but she was making herself physically sick and being sent home all the time (and then not allowed back in for 48hrs each time so missed massive chunks). She is much better now than she was and isn't sent home any more.

According to the ISC there are about 100k students with send in private, but only about 7k have EHCPs, so the vast majority of privately educated send students would not ‘have their paperwork in order’. The fact that you view it such (‘paperwork in order’) suggests a total ignorance of the various hurdles and barriers erected by the state to prevent children in need from getting the expensive help they need to be successful and thrive. There is a thriving ecosystem of educational consultants and lawyers who are increasingly necessary to hold the state accountable. Some of us have chosen to pay our own way rather than delay interventions that might help our children - including private education, but also a myriad of therapy and medical interventions that we really are entitled to but which are vanishingly rare and only appear once your child is in crisis (and is maybe too late). The system for Sen isn’t functioning now, I don’t see how adding more pressure (to any degree) helps anyone.

i have looked at Labour’s 10 point plan, and don’t see any mention of send support. Can you clarify?

It is amazing how many send children can thrive simply by being in smaller, quieter classes. In our mainstream indie school my dc is thriving with a few minor adjustments. We would need a great deal more support if she were in her old state school with 31 to a class and limited scope for sensory adjustments.

That's great she's much better, it sounds like she's had a tough time. Maybe you can explore applying for an ECHP now and hope that will help...I hope it all goes ok for you and her.

Yes, it is appalling how many children are being let down by our education system. But how does Labour’s vat policy address any of this? I fully support a total overhaul of the uk’s educational system, including massive investment. But this policy doesn’t do any of that - it is simply a performative gesture from a party that doesn’t have any real solutions.