How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

I am not going to lose sleep over the decisions of parents who can weigh up whether the cost of stamp duty is more or less than that of private education. I also don’t think that is in any way inconsistent with any Labour ideology or policy. It also ignores the fact that London has better educational outcomes in general than the rest of the country.

And yes - if I were so on a financial knife edge with regards to school fees such that I couldn’t find the extra c. £3k a year, I would be very, very paranoid about a Labour government.

This won’t affect that many children - and certainly far fewer than the children who have been utterly shafted by 14 years of Tory government and not been able to buy their way out of it. If you’re in private now, you’ll have 3 years or so to find the extra cash, and many schools have said they won’t pass on the full 20%. If you’re looking at secondary, then you can make your choice accordingly.

I meant that you’ll only need to find the cash for another 3 years or so, depending on what you do for 6th form.

You mean post the 2016 referendum when the Great British People had voted to give two fingers to the EU and throw off the shackles of Brussels?

@shockeditellyou - it is an incorrect assumption. A whole lot of private schools will go bust and even those who could have afforded the fees will be turfed out!

Torygraph just ran a story on Alton School in Hampshire having to close this summer! Not sure what happens to those in Year 10 and L6- what a nightmare!

There will be many many to follow and it has already started.

A private school near us closed a few years ago (all through school, generally successful) - the warning signs were there months before and the other local indies gleefully mopped up the children, and accepted them with open arms and in many cases waived any entrance requirements. It strengthened the remaining indies- so we might see some consolidation in the sector.

For context, our LA closed a primary school recently. Precisely no shits were given by anyone, outside of the parents affected - with declining rolls this is not a problem limited to the indie sector.

There are others closing this summer in the rough Alton area. So shit for the pupils. A large one in the city 2 of my dc are in closed two years ago (bankrupt), the other indies mopped them up best they could (including an all girls having 10 boys in year 13!). Financial viability is a consideration when choosing a private school for sure.

Limiting their choice further is plain stupid especially if it is just a policy playing into the cliched minds of those who don’t really understand the subtleties.

Oh the irony of a 'clichéd minds' reference from someone referring to a child as Jayden (from the council estate)!

@ForlornLindtBear - do you understand the concept of a double irony?

So you don’t like the substance of what I am saying? Therefore, attack the person to discredit them? It happens on many threads. It isn’t a good way of debating.

Private schools closing isn’t new - maybe you weren’t around for the 2008 recession?

https://archive.ph/YqmMe

Private schools are closing or merging at a rate of one a week as increasing numbers of parents take their children out of fee-paying education because of the recession.

Independent schools are bracing themselves for a bigger drop in pupil numbers after the summer holidays. Education experts warn that parents who have so far clung on and paid fees up to the end of this academic year are expected to pull their children out, causing a rush for places in state schools and a crisis in the independent sector.

Given the cost of living crisis over the last few years it’s hardly surprising that some schools are struggling.

@SabrinaThwaite - it is a bit like saying unis are struggling, let’s whack another 20 per cent on top of fees for all including for international students?

What do you think will happen?

If a sector is struggling already and then you whack an anomalous tax on top then what exactly is the intention? Clearly to further harm and contract it?

You can’t have it both ways. Private schools are so rich and parents will just pay vs at the same time, they are struggling anyway.
Which one is it @SabrinaThwaite?

ForlornLindtBear · Today 14:09
@Araminta1003 do you realise when you make up supposedly class- appropriate names for the hypothetical children in your post, that you devalue everything else you write. It's only the prejudice that stands out and sticks in people's minds

@ForlornLindtBear do you criticise posters who sneer at ‘Hugo & Camilla’ or similar ‘posh’ names?

Yes! My husband is a (top) boarding school educated Hugo.

Clemmie and Charles seem to be the mumnset choice for sneering at PS pupils.. 😉

Those with an EHCP are proposed to be exempt from VAT, so it would be difficult to see what discrimination you could argue.

No I don’t believe it’s the same at all.

You’re blaming schools like Alton (where expenditure has exceeded income for a number of years) closing on the mere threat of VAT when in reality they would inevitably close because their business model is flawed and economic pressures on their customers mean that they are unaffordable.

It happened in the early 1990s and it happened post 2008, not because of the threat of VAT but because they are unaffordable in a cost of living squeeze.

Yes I absolutely do. This is not an example of double irony but rather of cheap and lazy stereotyping.

The substance of what you are saying is discredited by that crassness.

ForlornLindtBear thank you for answering my question.

@ForlornLindtBear - I have clearly hit a nerve with you. You don’t want to believe that there are state school parents who like Starmer but think this policy is utterly stupid and makes him look stupid. And that he should do better. There I have said it!

You do realise that you can't just keep calling people and things 'stupid' to win an argument don't you?

@hamsterno1 - I am allowed to voice my opinion. I think that this VAT policy is as stupid as Brexit and Rishi’s Rwanda policy, just costs us money, and makes zero sense, and the public won’t be on side in the end. You get their votes by trickery and then it fails and you look darn stupid.

@Araminta1003 you've said what? What on earth are you talking about? You are making rather a lot of assumptions. I am a very MC, affluent, Oxbridge educated Labour voter. I sent my DC to state school and they are all at Oxbridge now. I don't love Starmer but he is still a better option than Johnson, Truss (!!! FFS) and Sunak. I do not support the policy as I believe it is targeting the wrong people. We pay very high taxes and I would happily pay more in income tax to sort out the state sector and the NHS.

For the third time, what I object to is you stereotyping children on the basis of class. It is very unpleasant and it has nothing to do with double irony.

It’s very upsetting to read the messages of those who support labour reforms.

My child is in a private school, who we chose for him because he had a really difficult time during the pandemic and because the school support him with sports which he is doing professionally. If he was in a state school, he wouldn’t be able to do sports because we would have no time to take him to trainings due to working full time.

Both my husband and I are immigrants who came to this country when we were in our early 20e. We had 2 bags with us with basic clothing and this was it. We had no savings, no family money, no inheritance.

We are a high income family now and last tax year combined we paid more than 150k in taxes. We have no tax allowance or breaks.

Despite paying so much tax, we barely use any state services including NHS (we have a very good private insurance which we pay for). We also save government money as we pay for our child’s education.

Can we afford to pay 20% more in school feels? Yes, we can. But that means that we will no longer be able to support charities and all other good causes.

We both worked extremely hard since we moved to this country. This included working 60 hours a week, weekends, nights etc. We made a lot of sacrifices, for example, I missed 90% of school events due to work. I feel sorry for people who are struggling because they are being unfairly underpaid or have health conditions which prevent them from working or who are struggling because they are looking after a disabled family member.

But those who are spiteful just because they are not successful themselves, shame on you. If 2 immigrants could do well in this country, you could do even better. So be grateful that our taxes are paying for your kids education and your benefits.

This policy is not going to solve any problems in state schools. If anything it will make it worse.

I have 3 kids at an independent. For the record, we have very working class non-uni educated parents. No silver spoons here! We can’t pay 20% more.

Cost for the State to educate them all based on Gov figures would be £22,500 a year. They all have between 5-10 years of education left.

We can both reduce our hours and/or put extra into pensions and reduce our annual tax bill by another £11k at least if we take them out of their school.

So our 1 household will cost the Gvt over £30k a year more than now and for many years too. I don’t think our circumstances are particularly exceptional from talking to other parents.

This is what I mean.

By your reckoning everyone could afford the fees if they tried a bit harder so what's the issue with fee rises?

Please don't tell me that you don't use public services, as if that means you don't have any duty towards anyone else. I pray you don't need A&E anytime soon, so you see first hand what this government has done to this country.

I am pleased you have done so well. But please pay your share so that the country you chose is actually a decent place to live.

I didn’t say I do not use public services at all, I said I barely use them.

’Pay your share’ - so 150k a year, plus paying a higher rate council tax (yes, I live in a nice house), plus paying a luxury tax on my car, plus having a higher spending power and thus supporting local economy is not enough? I have no desire to live under communism ‘From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs‘.

This country isn’t doing well because millions of people prefer not to work and stay on benefits and the sickness absence is the highest in the world.