How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

You do know that 40% of universal credit recipients are in work don't you?

Or the people on zero hours contracts working multiple jobs.

Or that nurses are using food banks. I listened this week to a firefighter who had an EXTRA full time job just to afford the rent.

Sickness is at a record high because NHS waiting lists for operations are now years, and
Mental health provision is non-existent.

But if it makes you more comfortable to think everyone else is just a workshy layabout then crack on.

I'm thrilled for you, I really am.

So are you saying that taxing middle class more will improve the working conditions of nurses or firefighters?

The labour policy on VAT is flawed. Fewer kids will go to independent schools, state schools will become even more overcrowded and the overall quality of education will go down even further. It’s as simple as that.

Charity is a cold grey loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.

So what is a reasonable tax rate in your opinion for higher paid workers?

Erm, yes, of course taxing more means better public services.

Our Council is consulting on a school because there are not enough kids filling the places. Two years ago one of our huge secondaries closed due to lack of children using it. The school where I’m a governor has just reduced to a one form entry.

Honestly, the state schools will cope with the fraction of the fraction of children who are currently privately educated who will have to be withdrawn

None of this outrage is because of concern over how state schools will cope.

I am a higher tax payer. No where near your league though.

I think 40% over £50k is reasonable. I would think 45% would be reasonable too. I also think there’s room for a higher 50% tax rate for those earning over £100k or £150k.

None of this outrage is because of concern over how state schools will cope

I know! Like they care 😃. It’s almost as if they’ve come up with the one pseudo-argument that might, at a squeeze, pass for altruistic rather than selfish and draw-bridgy.

Those who earn £100k to £125k already have an effective tax rate of 60% because of the loss of the personal allowance. It’s about time that we followed much of Europe and started taxing lower earners properly.

Some areas will be fine, others will not because the spare school places are not spread evenly across the country.

Lower earners properly? How much more do you want to take from them?

@Ppejfhfhrhhfhf i think everyone needs to contribute if we want to sort education (and healthcare and infrastructure). 1-2% more from everyone would make a massive difference. It is a minority of tax payers that are net contributors , and they cannot be counted on to contribute endlessly. Taxes shape behaviours and when you take home less than half of incremental earnings (which is the case now at £100k) you start to change your behaviour in order to avoid tax. As someone self-employed, I start to decline work once I hit that higher rate threshold, for example. A big tax on private school makes it less likely some will go private, and also less likely they will work extra to pay for private

Surely what matters is whether the argument is correct, not whether the motives of those making it pass your purity test.
from what I can see it is all speculation and conjecture at this point. The policy is poorly formed and articulated and as such noble can assess its impact properly. Given the importance of it, thus seems a reprehensible failing on the part of saint Keir and his archangels.

thus seems a reprehensible failing on the part of saint Keir and his archangels

Ah, that’s more like it. Throw back that curtain 😃

@ForlornLindtBear ”You are making rather a lot of assumptions. I am a very MC, affluent, Oxbridge educated Labour voter. I sent my DC to state school and they are all at Oxbridge now. I don't love Starmer but he is still a better option than Johnson, Truss (!!! FFS) and Sunak. I do not support the policy as I believe it is targeting the wrong people. We pay very high taxes and I would happily pay more in income tax to sort out the state sector and the NHS.”

You really need to check your privilege! You have told us you are rich, married to a posh guy, have social and cultural capital etc etc.

You have it all and yet here you are preaching to others - it doesn’t make sense. Of course your DC are fine in state schools. So are mine! Because I am in a similar position. And that is exactly why we have to have empathy for others who are not- like the self made immigrant poster above. This kind of policy won’t make them feel safe in this country or that they and their hard work and their children are worth anything. It is a modern form of colonialism at its best.

Biggest determinant of a child getting into Oxbridge is the level of education of the mother/books at home etc - not which school they go to.

I have full empathy for posters who have children with SEN and have been forced to pay up for what should be their basic rights and for others trying to navigate the complex social and class structures in Britain. They don’t need privileged people like Starmer preaching to them. Many have an innate culture that investing in education is always best- what about us accommodating their culture too as we are more than happy to accept their taxes and labour?!

I was thinking about how I would vote if a party had overall good policies, but stated they would close all grammar schools and thereby affect one of my DC gravely.

First I thought maybe I have to consider the party as a whole. Then I realised what my own child might say to me when they were grown up if I specifically voted for them to be disrupted again (after Covid being pretty awful). And it made me realise there is NO WAY I could consciously vote for that party. They are setting out to harm my child. So personally I have concluded that no private school parents or teachers are likely to vote for this. And that is probably why there are so many posts about this on MN- people are conflicted and confused! It is a very cruel and nasty policy.

@MargaretThursday thank you for highlighting that this will disproportionately affect children with SEN.

We sent DD, who has combined type ADHD to a small none for profit independent school with a great reputation for supporting children with relatively "mild" SEN who weren't coping in mainstream schools. She restarted year 10 so will be doing her iGCSEs next year. The support and mentoring she gets, along with finally being on the home straight with getting her medication and dose to the right level, is making a huge difference, and the development of her confidence is such a wonderful thing to see after years and years of her thinking she was stupid.

If we have to put her back into a local state school a lot of that hard work that's been put in, both by her and her teachers, will be undone. But I don't think we can afford the hike in prices. I'm just selfishly hoping it takes enough time to go through that it won't affect us.

I have done this, found I couldn't vote for them, then felt sad that I couldn't vote for them (ie vs Tories). The vitriol and spite Ive seen on mumsnet has cured me of this though.

Why is going to Oxbridge such as thing on here?!

I do think that one of the fundamental problems with private education is that the kids who would probably benefit most from the stuff it provides are the kids who have no chance of accessing it. Privilege attracts privilege.

Which this VAT policy makes worse...

Most parents at private school don't want it to be accessible, because then it won't be an advantage would it.

People will always pay for privilege. There will be people who have made sacrifices for that, many with good reason. But that is what they are paying for.

I have a friend who works in a fairly difficult comprehensive school. She says the 6th form has a steady stream of private school kids switching for A level because it looks better on their UCAS form, outraged that listing a private school doesn't carry the clout it once did.

Maybe that's why some private schools are struggling so much. At least those parents can blame Keir Starmer.

I’m not sure - you’re right there’s a definite group of parents that wouldn’t want to widen access to private but there are many others that would welcome it. There’s no plan on the table to widen access though.

like that guardian article said, there could’ve been an opportunity to either pay additional new tax or widen access.

Wrong. Clear you know nothing about private schools.

Maybe the prestoguous public schools as in the likes of Eton etc are like that but the vast majority of independent schools cater for local kids, ones with SEN which state schools can't accommodate or ones whose interests aren't catered for at local state. RTFT as there are lots of examples of why parents chose independent schools, none of those reasons include giving their DC an advantage.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/20/vat-private-schools-labour-low-income-kids-tax-bursaries

When considering 'privilege' it's a big picture. A colleague recently had an issue with my concerns about private school fees going up and was talking proudly about her child going to a comprehensive. However, our catchment comprehensive in the inner city area we live in has a 33% pass for English and maths at GCSE. The one her child goes to in a leafy and well-off village is 55%. So who is 'privileged?'