How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

There's a parent on this forum who has a very musical child. State school were unable to even offer them Music GCSE.

Child is now on a scholarship at one of the private Cathedral schools who offer all the music her daughter could benefit from and that the state system was unable to provide.

@Araminta1003 do you realise when you make up supposedly class- appropriate names for the hypothetical children in your post, that you devalue everything else you write. It's only the prejudice that stands out and sticks in people's minds.

Life isn't fair and Labour policy won't fee fair to private school fee paying parents and I think it is a bad move for Labour to consider it. Once Labour consults etc it is possible it may not go through and be kicked into the long grass but we shall see. I have never thought it fair that where I am from (NE) grammar schools were abolished in the 1970s but some other parts of England still have them. Why when we pay the same taxes do parents in some areas get grammar school choices and other areas there are none when it is supposed to be state schooling?

How do you feel about DC on bursaries being thrown out of private schools? How fair is that? If I am not mistaken, you were saying that you hoped it would be possible to keep the VAT impact down for the fee paying parents?

I thought private schools were noble charities , committed to making sure their offerings were accessible?

if a private school can’t keep current bursary pupils by reclaiming VAT, then they are on a real sticky wicket and won’t be around much longer. This has been in the offing for a long time and families and schools have had lots of time to prepare.

Fundamentally, I trust a Labour government far more than the Tories to sort out education. VAT on school fees is inconsequential in that argument.

Incorrect. It was only Brexit that enabled VAT to be discussed and when that happened Labour wasn't in power so it wasn't even a suggestion. It is only in the last 18 months that it has been looking like a possibility.

You know it was Labour who scrapped the maintenance grant and introduced tuition fees?

Are people seriously suggesting that education will be better supported under a Tory government? If so, at least be honest about your “I’m all right Jack” attitude, instead of some faux “won’t someone think of the SEN kids” concern.

And it wasn’t Labour who jacked up fees to £9k.

No I'm not saying that but what I am saying is be careful of putting all your hopes onto Labour

@hamsterno1 i’m really sorry to hear about your son, I can’t even imagine how awful that feels.

It isnt faux concern for those of us with kids in this position. You’re entitled to your opinion of the policy but I think it’s reasonable to expect our difficulties to be addressed in less offensive, more empathetic terms.

A lot of us are hoping Starmer has hidden depths, he’s certainly paddled in all the shallows! I see Reeves on news again committing to no income or NI tax rises - dismal.

I keep seeing this argument about this having been in the offing for ages - where on earth is it coming from? There was no way VAT could have been imposed on fees pre Brexit unless HMG was going to breach EU law. It’s bizarre.

Jeremy Corbyn first stated in 2017 that Labour would put VAT on school fees.

Also there has long been an argument for removing charitable status.

They can't do this because this would have implications for universities.

It is ironic that Brexit had offered a way round it.

So you think people should have been planning on the basis of pronouncements from a man who was never going to be elected and who was pledging to do something which at the time he pledged it would have been unlawful?! Come on.

We had to move our daughter to a small independent private school because she couldn’t cope in her large mainstream despite good academic results.

She was self-harming & took an OD on her way to school. She was in a high state of anxiety & was bullied. School blamed her state of mind on her attitude & the only alternative provision they could offer was not suitable.

We struggled for months to get through CAHMS. We ended up going private to see a psychiatrist. She was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and is due further assessment for neuro-divergent conditions. Now we are bracing ourselves to start applying for an EHCP.

Are we privileged ? Yes, but it’s really going to stretch us financially - Having to go to private school wasn't on our radar.

Some will say it’s our choice… yes in part, but there was not really any other options for suitable schools (other than maybe online - but again not entirely suitable)

Al I angry? Hell, yes - so many families being let down by both education and health system, stuck in limbo for months if not years… in the same way about the difficulty many families are facing with cost of living crisis.

Will the the VAT imposed on private school help improving comprehensive system?

I don’t think so…

Where are the plans for teacher retention, reform of the secondary system, raising standards, mental health for young people, SEND provision … ? And Is it time to stop having super large high schools?

Because if it is about bringing a few thousands extra teachers, it’s not even touching the surface of the issues facing schools right now & it’s not just all about funding either - some of it is about systemic failure & mindset too…

Parents in the large mainstream school raise concerns with the school for one thing or another on a regular basis … with little results.

We never thought in a million years about having to go through what we did in the last few months.

Private schools are not just for the super rich & not all comprehensive have good SEN provision.

Whilst it’s worth the debate, I hope that those in favour of this policy will appreciate that the picture is more complex that meet the eyes.

Thank you 🙏

They do not ‘go on holiday’. Parliament goes into recess. MPs return to their constituencies to work.

No - but when the Conservative government made clear it was going to be a shitshow and that a Labour government was all but inevitable, it’s hard to consider it a surprise. Labour has never stepped away from the policy.

The point about bursaries is not that I want any child to lose one (although plenty of people play the system by having a housewife inthe family (who could work full time)and a self employed husband on a low enough sum to get a bursary; it is more than I was just stating the point that there is a limited pot of money in most private schools. Most of it goes on teacher wages and pensions by a long way compared to anything else. Schools mostly will be trying not to pass on the full 20% and one way may be to return to the older system where there were a few academic scholarships even if you were rich (my sons had music scholarships to school - a relatively small sum only and not based on income) - if you were good enough (in other words fair, not based on parents' income) and then more bursaries came out not least because of changes to charity law. As schools will have less money once there is 20% VAT to find they may well have to offer fewer bursaries or no bursaries. I have never been very comfortable paying shed loads of tax since 1983, plus 5 lots of school and then university fees and then also paying the school to give money to children of women who in some cases have never worked a day in their lives, kept by a man on a relatively low sum so I don't particularly mind if bursaries based on income go and then we can kepe the system purer - private sector and you pay for your child (and you also pay vast sums in income tax to educate children in schools) but you don't pay a third time in terms of extra school fees to go towards bursaries.

“@Araminta1003 do you realise when you make up supposedly class- appropriate names for the hypothetical children in your post, that you devalue everything else you write. It's only the prejudice that stands out and sticks in people's minds.”

Ok well I did deliberately use stereotypical names a la concepts used on other threads but it was meant to be a double irony. A bit like this policy is in my mind. Playing on people’s prejudices rather than the reality on the ground.

The recent debate in the HL clearly shows there are so many smaller private school players which will likely be impacted and the percentage of SEN in the private sector is particularly highlighted. So there is a case there for disability discrimination and the Government know for a fact that there are a ton of children who already exhibit emotionally based school avoidance and complex mental health needs resulting from that. So what about those in the private sector who were moved after such an experience. The parents will hopefully have a paper trail from state school and I very much hope they all get together and bring a class action disability discrimination claim against the Government - particularly if this VAT policy is brought in.

And yes my children are/were in London state schools - it constantly highlighted on these threads that there are not enough children left going to state primary schools in London (post Covid exodus and plummeting birth rates). Guess what - if you contract good state school places even further what actually happens is that house price based catchments become even pricier and even more people leave London thereby even more state primary schools will be closed!

There is so much stupidity in this policy because it is aimed at those with no real knowledge of the private sector as a whole and just based on the cliches of rich kids born to go to private school who were never going to set foot in the state sector anyway and of course, people expect them to just pay up. Why not actually look at the figures of how many kids have been in both state and private sector for starters?!!!

It would be difficult to argue the SEN angle, as independent schools are not bound by the SEN code of practice, if you pay all the fees. So by going independent, you’ve (in the eyes of the law) given yourself less protection. I understand the reality might be different.

Your argument about school catchments makes no sense - empty places in popular schools are filled. The only way they aren’t is if there is a surplus of popular school places.

My argument about London is that it has a large proportion of children going to private secondary schools. If you make that even more expensive, they leave London earlier! Lots of kids go to state primary and then private secondary later in London because quite often this is cheaper than moving house and paying stamp duty again - in addition to some catchments commanding a 15-20 per cent catchment premium. So those parents move out of London to either areas with cheaper private schools or into cheaper good state school catchments. It is already happening anyway and this VAT business will aggravate the situation even more.

Look the Labour Party know that Education is in crisis all the way to Higher Education and they know for a fact that the birth rate is too low, especially amongst well educated women. This is therefore yet another stupid policy. Educated women don’t compromise on education for their children especially if they are time poor. Limiting their choice further is plain stupid especially if it is just a policy playing into the cliched minds of those who don’t really understand the subtleties.

So what should we all have done? Pulled our kids out when Boris started tanking in the polls?
the fair thing to do would be to phase implementation so that only new entrants pay and the existing cohort can finish on the basis they started. Starmer received a similar accommodation himself as a child when his own school went fee paying but he and others already there were exempted, because it was recognised that it wasn’t fair to prejudice existing pupils. To do otherwise is just venting political spleen at kids expense, which is pretty disgusting.