Is your child’s all-through (4-18) independent school doing this too?

[SoGladofYou]

DC is in Year 5. We have just been told that the teaching in the prep school is now oh so good that the senior school no longer requires them to take their 11+ in order to be given a place in the senior school. Offers of places have been brought forward and will be made in the Autumn Term in Year 6 with an Acceptance deadline at the end of November. Presumably a financial commitment will be required at this point.

The reasons why Senior School has taken this stance will be abundantly clear to many, and it is certainly not about the wonderful teaching in prep, which is utter bxxxxxxs because teachers come and go and the academic ability of cohorts of children obviously varies from year to year. However, for those parents who have definitely made up their minds that this is where they want their children to transition to, so far so good.

Not so for us. We genuinely haven’t made up our minds yet and would like DC to take the 11+ externally at a couple of other schools. The 11+ exams won’t even begin until December with offers made as late as February, as has previously been the case. By this stage DS’s current school will have slammed us into a decision about their school one way or another.

Also not so good for the less able prep school students whose ability to pass the Senior School’s 11+ would have hung in the balance, or for those who have EMBD issues. They will also be offered places at the Senior School. However, parents have been told that if, after two years, their child is not ‘thriving’, then they will be ‘supported’ to find a more suitable school. These parents are feeling that it might be better to apply for other schools as well but, again, offers from other schools will not come through until months later.

Obviously independent schools are businesses, but this feels like they are wielding entirely too much power. They are operating from a position of immorality, exploiting the position of their own clients (ie parents), and acting totally against the interests of the children they claim to be supporting.

Is this going on anywhere else?

What is the financial commitment you need to make in November? If it is ‘just’ a couple hundred quid I would suck it up as the price for having options.

our all-through has never required 11+ and the expectation is very much that you continue through, not that everyone does. I haven’t looked at timings as we are still a couple years from making that decision.

The stance on counselling out lower performers after 2 years would leave a very bad taste in my mouth, though. Our school is non-selective though, so different philosophy.

@Labraradabrador Thanks for your reply. For all their marketing, & despite my direct request, the school has been strangely reluctant to come back to us WRT the actual how much & when.

It does seem a bit odd.

Our school is Prep and then Senior, so the move doesn’t happen until year 9. But no decisions need to be made until Easter, when the normal rules of a terms notice apply. Anyone who doesn’t formally give notice by the first day of the summer term is assumed to be going up to senior (and would be charged for the Autumn Term of year 9) We are not academically selective though, and any year 8 automatically gets a place at the senior in year 9 (unless they are really badly behaved I suppose, as it is subject to references)

What does your school normally do?

Are you sure you cannot just give a term's notice at Easter, if you accept a place at another school? Many schools locally have moved to no 11+ assessment internally for senior places, but those unlikely to make it are encouraged to look elsewhere in year 5. They have also brought their external 11+ assessment, and deferred 13+ , to autumn term.

@usernamedifferent What does your school usually do?
This is the first time they have done this. Up until this year, children have had to sit 11+ in December, same as other schools.

We would not be able to give the term’s notice at Easter, because we would have had to accept the Senior School’s offer the preceding November.

I don’t know why all all-thru independants don’t just do this. It’s not as if they don’t filter at GCSE anyway.

This so very obviously them wanting to firm up numbers before VAT is imposed, they must think you're all a bit daft if they think you won't see through that!! FWIW DC's are at an all through school and we didn't have to pay a deposit when moving up from Junior to Senior.

They clearly want bums on seats.

But normally, if you wanted your child to leave at any point, you’d give a terms notice ?

So even if you accept a place for year 7 in November of year 6, could you not just give a terms notice at Easter that actually you are withdrawing and accepting a place at another school?

What money do they want you to pay in November? Or what are they getting you to sign at that point ?

I wonder if our kids are at the same school. Ours is doing exactly the same. I am also pissed off that they have removed the 11+ - it makes it much harder to look at other schools that might be more suitable as they all want the 11+. And moving after two years of senior school would be really disruptive, both academically and in terms of friendships.

I can't see why accepting a place in November precludes you serving a terms notice at Easter? The only downside might be the loss of a deposit - but presumably you've already paid that when your child started at the school and would lose it anyway if you moved to a different school for year 7?

Yes, the local all through independents now advertise that if you come in Year 5 you don’t have to sit the senior school’s entrance exams. It’s very appealing for some families and means that lots of pupils are leaving their stand alone preps early. It’s just a way of getting bums on seats £££ earlier.

Our school starts at yr3. They sit an assessment for whatever year group they plan to join so it is at least partially selective.
Once in though they don’t have to be assessed to move into the senior school. All junior girls are guaranteed a place.
I also don’t understand why you can’t simply give a terms notice if you wish to leave as you would at any point.

11+ isn’t really a thing in our area as no local grammar school.

We would not be able to give the term’s notice at Easter, because we would have had to accept the Senior School’s offer the preceding November. Or you could but there might be a penalty, ie holding deposit. What are the terms and conditions of accepting a place?

The independent schools' 11+ exams are different anyway, often even from one to another. If you wanted to sit fir other schools presumably you would tutor accordingly.

They can't physically force you to stay on. There must be a way of giving notice even after signing up to the senior school.

Surely you can still sit for the same school later as an external candidate? (Hopefully without a registration fee?)

I think this is what many schools who insist on early acceptance do. They still give you the option to sit for other private schools/grammars/state schools.

Under the HMC code they are not really meant to be doing this though as it amounts to unfair competition arguably.

I would always be very wary of any school that insists on a deposit/acceptance before state National Offer Day for Year 7 entry. It is just not right and anti competitive.

I went to an open day for a non-selective prep school that is attached to a senior school recently, and the head really pushed this and boasted that it was because the teaching is so good in the prep school.

It was actually really off-putting as a prospective parent with another child I was planning to send to the senior school, as the prep was nowhere near on a par the standard of the senior school (it was hard to believe they were part of the same school!) And I felt it really water-downed my perception of the selectiveness/academic standards required for the senior school which has a reputation for being relatively high performing and on the up.

I also think it is grossly unfair for those kids that will then be asked to leave at the end of Year 8 because they arent coping, as the majority of entrance exams for Year 9 are sat in Year 6 as a pre-test and they will have missed the opportunity to find the right school for them as part of the normal 11+/13+ process.

Yes this is becoming more common.

I can think of a few local preps that have merged into groups with local secondaries and they then run a similar early offer process when they join the group.

While not all parents are keen, generally it is very popular with a lot of parents. Avoiding the stress and preparation required for the entrance exams is appealing.

For the secondary, they get parents who are used to paying fees, generally not on bursaries etc. They also can set basic curriculum requirements for these kids (e.g. tried the relevant sports, languages etc)

The school runs the early offer process to secure intake numbers.

it isn’t necessarily great for those in the first few years but in the long term all parents joining the prep will know what the arrangement is and decide to join or not accordingly.

What were your plans or hopes for your DC? As currently it seems your options are the same as they would have been but now the transfer to Seniors doesn’t feel “selective”? Are you worried that 11+ prep will therefore be reduced or not focused upon (which is likely as they want bums on seats)? You can give notice so that’s fine. But what is the underlying annoyance and then you can target that?

DC are at a 3-18 through indie.

As long as pupils have joined before the end of Y4; there’s no requirement to sit the entrance exam for the secondary years, this is how it’s been for a long time now. There is an entrance exam at entry of any stage past Y1, so it’s partially selective at the outset.

They will flag any children who aren’t keeping up separately, but it’s their role to get them ready for Y7 and beyond, they say.

Tbh, this the attractiveness of a through school, for many.

Our local indies have always operated on parents using the “state till 8” model - no entry exam if they have joined in before yr4 but exam for entry at any subsequent year. Entirely designed to stop the yr7 influx as we are blessed with many decent state primaries and sod all decent (non catholic) state secondary provision