Is your child’s all-through (4-18) independent school doing this too?

[SoGladofYou]

DC is in Year 5. We have just been told that the teaching in the prep school is now oh so good that the senior school no longer requires them to take their 11+ in order to be given a place in the senior school. Offers of places have been brought forward and will be made in the Autumn Term in Year 6 with an Acceptance deadline at the end of November. Presumably a financial commitment will be required at this point.

The reasons why Senior School has taken this stance will be abundantly clear to many, and it is certainly not about the wonderful teaching in prep, which is utter bxxxxxxs because teachers come and go and the academic ability of cohorts of children obviously varies from year to year. However, for those parents who have definitely made up their minds that this is where they want their children to transition to, so far so good.

Not so for us. We genuinely haven’t made up our minds yet and would like DC to take the 11+ externally at a couple of other schools. The 11+ exams won’t even begin until December with offers made as late as February, as has previously been the case. By this stage DS’s current school will have slammed us into a decision about their school one way or another.

Also not so good for the less able prep school students whose ability to pass the Senior School’s 11+ would have hung in the balance, or for those who have EMBD issues. They will also be offered places at the Senior School. However, parents have been told that if, after two years, their child is not ‘thriving’, then they will be ‘supported’ to find a more suitable school. These parents are feeling that it might be better to apply for other schools as well but, again, offers from other schools will not come through until months later.

Obviously independent schools are businesses, but this feels like they are wielding entirely too much power. They are operating from a position of immorality, exploiting the position of their own clients (ie parents), and acting totally against the interests of the children they claim to be supporting.

Is this going on anywhere else?

I think it's important to do the 11+ for a few others schools she likes the look of. I think a tutor might be required. I had one for maths, English and VR, tailored to the private school entrance exams. I needed loads BC I went to a really hippy state primary where they didn't teach maths or English in a traditional way or do any testing. Obviously your child won't need that much.

It's standard practice for an all through school. We had to pay £1,000 non-refundable deposit in year 5 if we wanted to accept the year 9 place. We still could have left with a terms notice but would have lost the deposit. It's a bit daft to choose and an all through prep if you want to change senior schools.

@HooleyB
It’s a bit daft to choose an all through prep if you want to change senior schools
Howso? Children change a great deal between the ages of 4 and 11, not to mention schools themselves change, and others things become more apparent. It is not that unusual for what seems like a good fit at the age of 4 not to be such a good fit by the age of 11.

Honestly, what do you expect the schools to do. Birth rate is down, cost of living is high, tax rate has never been so high for the professional classes, fees are up and vat is looming.

Schools that aren't near full are going to go out of business in very short order. Yes the big name schools have massive endowments but that isn't the case for the majority of private day schools that have high wage bills to pay.

This is crisis action on the part of the school. Only the truly wealthy will be able to afford private school soon.

@SoGladofYou They do but that's not the usp of an all through school. People choose them precisely to avoid the stress of prepping for the 11+ etc. All throughs will help place a child who isn't a good fit for their senior school but it's not their goal. If you want to keep all your options open for senior school and get the best independent steer for secondary then you choose a stand alone prep because that's precisely what they're designed to do.

Accept the offer in Nov, and then the following Easter, if your DC got into / choose another school you just give notice to current school, I imagine having to just pay a terms fees?

Agreed. You may lose the deposit but they can’t force you to stay.

Thanks for the idea, but we are not super rich. We couldn’t afford to sacrifice a term’s fees.

But if you give a term’s notice you won’t lose even that

You'll just lose the deposit not the terms fees. Ours was £1000. You've chosen the wrong school if you wanted to choose without any type of penalty. If you want to ensure a place you'll pay for it. That's the bottom line really.

If you find out about other schools in Feb, surely you won't lose a terms fees anyway if you give notice at that point?

I think it's fairly normal to have to accept place / give deposit quite early on. We just did this for primary school, had to accept and pay the deposit in Nov, well before national offers day this April, if we'd decided a different school based on the national offers day result we would have lost the deposit. It didn't strike me as particularly unfair to be honest. I think it's par for the course and something you just have to accept is part of the process if you decide to go private.

Thanks. My point is that for our cohort school has brought forward the offer acceptance date from February to November, which wasn’t what we signed up to.

If they are struggling to fill places then there will presumably still be availability later in the year? I would not commit and see what else is offered elsewhere through normal common entrance before deciding.

They are trying to lock people in early and get bums on seats

My kids are not in private school but a friend was telling me that their private school (7-18) have not only brought it forward. They have said if you apply to any other school (state or private) at 11 plus your automatic 11 plus place at the original private school is gone. She thinks they may still let her apply as an external candidate - but it is a relatively competitive school and she doesn’t know if they would hold it against her. She has no idea what to do! Was speaking to me to explore state grammar options. She regrets going private early now as her options seem less and her child will be under more pressure than if he had stayed in state primary.

Private schools are closing ranks/blackmailing parents to stay and using pressure tactics to keep bums on seats. They normally just over offer- they must be worried about numbers and want people to tell them early what their plans are.

Furthermore my friend says it is difficult to tell if they are worried about numbers vs trying to create competitive hype as that attracts more applications. It is London and she thinks they want the parents to leave who can’t afford/want to complain about the VAT. It is force majeure- act by a Government, schools have to comply. They can’t start doing tax avoidance which some parents seem to expect! They have to look after the staff foremost and keep the school running.

Unfortunately even if you didn’t sign up on that basis, legally private schools can vary the contract at any time and you are free to give one term’s notice. If they start holding you to more than one clear term’s written notice, I would be questioning that. There is a code most have signed up to that they are meant to follow.

I don't think people are expecting tax avoidance as such, but some schools have said they will absorb some or all of the VAT, but cutting out bursaries etc.

To lose your place at the senior school because you've applied to other schools seems quite desperate and not in the child's interest to me! How would they even know if you've applied elsewhere anyway.

They know because the other school you're applying to will need to take up a reference from the current school. Also, children talk! I think I know which school you mean @Araminta1003 and this change has made lots of parents very cross.

I think if it was non selective and the children were guaranteed a place all the way through it might be slightly better but to stop them taking the exam then potentially 'counsel out' is terrible.

“How would they even know if you've applied elsewhere anyway.”

Like I said we are in the state sector but most of my colleagues, lots of friends and family send their DCs to private schools. We often compare notes.

In my Borough, they send the outcome of secondary state school places to the primary school as well and they send the grammar outcomes to the primary before we even get the results! Because in theory there is a right of appeal by the head teacher. So if a private school kid sits a grammar place I would think the grammar outcome is also sent to the private primary school? Here private schools also have to register the child on the school roll by law. I don’t know if it varies in other boroughs/counties.

And from the limited understanding I have of private schools they always ask for a reference - especially about non payment of fees! So at best you can ask them to accept school reports initially for the offer but after an offer they have to ask for the fees reference? I think it is another thing of the guidelines they signed up to amongst themselves (but I am not sure).

Fair enough!

You could just not pay deposit then hope for the best if they have places left if you decide to go for it in the end later in the year.

But presumably you're still considering it as an option, so I'd see the deposit as a necessary price to pay to have options/a back up/guaranteed space.