Insight on Kent grammar Schools (Judd, Skinners and TWGSB)

[expatinmys]

Hi all
Hoping to get some responses to my query below.

Currently DS is preparing for the Kent Test and he is doing all right but a bit careless at times with his answers. We are within catchment for Skinners, Judd and TWGSB.

We are at the moment in the middle east and moving back by June/July to register for the Kent test and then attend year 6 in a local primary school.

Both DH and I are not grammar school educated. DS has not been in a school in the UK as we moved out to the ME when he was quite young.

We are aiming to get DS into one of the Kent grammar schools (Judd, Skinners and TWGSB) depending on his results.

I was hoping to get some insight into how grammar schools work especially in the non-academic sense, in the co-curricular and activities outside the classroom.

DS is not massively sporty but he loves his football. He is also in tennis lessons and swims twice a week and plays some cricket. He is average in most of these sports.

For music he is learning a brass instrument and piano. Will be attempting the 1st level exams by end of the year.

We were hoping to get some insight into how team sports are run in the grammar schools (especially in Skinners, Judd and TWGSB). I am aware in some private schools there are football team A, B C and so on which is based on ability of the boys. This would give the boys who are average a chance to participate as well.

I realise that all 3 (Judd, Skinners and TWGSB) seem to have a number of core sports, does that mean other sports such as football or tennis or less popular sports such as badminton are not played in the school?

How about musical opportunities within the schools?

We were wondering how the whole ethos of the grammar school works.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I guess my question is , is there a competitive environment in the co-curricular activities that if a child does not excel he will not get the opportunity to be part of a team sports/orchestra and so on?

The ages 11 to 18 seem to be a defining time for boys, so we were wondering if anyone could share their experience of how their children fared in the grammars school and how they turned out and also will be good to hear from current parents.

Where we are at the moment, the secondary schools are good, very academic focused. The system is such that the school ends at 2pm and then after that it is up to the parents to ensure that their children take part in sports , learn a musical instrument etc. I have the opinion schools should be more than that , so trying to find out how the 3 grammar schools work especially since the whole of the UK seems to be going through some challenges with the woke culture, funding for schools.

Thanks in advance.

@expatinmys , I'm bumping this post up for you but I would bear in mind that a secondary school in England receives around £6k per pupil per year so extra curricular is always going to be a small part of the offering whether selective or non selective state school.

You could try posting in the Kent forum section of elevenplusexams.co.uk too but you will see the focus is on gaining a place rather than what a school offers.

My son is finishing Y7 At Skinners. We are very happy with it, on balance.

Sports - Judd and Skinners are predominantly rugby schools and take it very seriously. Rugby is played for the full Autumn term. Football is only played for half a term (the other half of the Spring term being hockey). Athletics and cricket in the summer term.
Teams are indeed picked A, B, C etc. I think it goes to D or E. I suspect it’s similar at the other two schools.
No swimming as none of these schools have pools.
No tennis.
No badminton. Or at least not to my knowledge.
One PE lesson every fortnight and one Rugby (or whatever sport is being played that term) lesson a week.

Clubs - there are quite a few sports clubs which focus on extra training for rugby and cross country, but also include fencing and climbing (Skinners has a huge, challenging climbing wall) run by external providers. There is no football club for the younger boys currently.
There are also many non-sports clubs.

I think TWGSB might focus a little more on football as it’s not quite as traditional as Skinners and Judd. But that said, the experience will be broadly similar.

Music - we specifically chose Skinners for their music department. Lots of concerts. They also have a recording studio. Lots of additional music clubs, choirs, ensembles etc.
Instrumental lessons are provided by peri teachers for a charge. The boys miss lessons on rotation each week for each instrument. If I’m honest, I haven’t been blown away by the instrumental teachers we’ve encountered - in fact we decided to source a different teacher out of school time and might do that for his second instrument too. Regardless, we might have made this decision sooner rather than later as it’s not ideal to miss formal teaching time.

Y7 had a residential bushcraft trip at the start of the year which was great fun apparently.

Happy to answer any other questions.

I have a son at Skinners and he is very happy there. Sport - he hates rugby and has only ever had to do rugby skills and touch rugby. As pp says there are team from A to D or E in most of the sports so boys get and opportunity to play even if they are not the best players. My son is a cricket player and gets to play during his weekly games afternoon from Easter until July as well as for two hours after school at a weekly club. Matches happen most weeks plus on Saturdays. PE lessons - I'm going to contradict the pp as I'm pretty sure they have weekly PE lessons and have played badminton, table tennis and danish long ball and had a few lessons on the climbing wall. Also there is a fully equipped gym so some PE lessons are gym sessions. Other clubs he has tried are junior history club, choir, art club and drama club. The list is clubs is extensive. But his thing is music - he is part of folk group, strings ensemble, junior orchestra, choir and goes to music tech club after school each week. He spends a lot of time in the music department before school, during break time and lunch time. He has lessons externally as he was playing before joined Skinners. Academically it's stretching him but most importantly he's enjoying the lessons.

With regards admissions (you may already know this!) bear in mind that both Judd and Skinners are "super selectives" - Judd will cream off the highest scoring boys within an inner catchment and outer catchment who put it as their first choice so their "pass mark" as it were varies each year depending on how that particular year's cohort scored in the Kent Test. On the other hand Skinners requires boys to score 40 points above the Kent Test pass mark for that particular year. I believe last year the pass mark was 332 so boys had to score 372 to be considered and then places are awarded by distance. TWGSB you need to pass the Kent Test and then places are awarded on distance. You can look at the admissions criteria for all the schools on their websites. And I stand to be corrected on the above info, this is just to the best of my knowledge.

Thanks for responding @tennissquare and information on the school funding. I'll try to post on the eleven plus exams website but sometimes I get locked out due to not being in the UK currently but thanks!

Thanks for your feedback @MariahPariah and @MumOfStarWars. Much appreciated.

Judd seems to be a lot more academic focused from what I have heard elsewhere. Which isn't a bad thing but having a balance is good I guess.

How about behaviour among the boys? Is there much emphasis on good behaviour in the schools? I am concerned how DS will turn out at 18 and was just wondering if the school makes an effort to mold the boys into respectable young adults? Any insight will be welcome.

I had a look at the TWGSB website and there seems to be a lot more sporting fixtures including basketball and football, will wait to see if I get any feedback.

My son is at TWGSB, Twells site. Really enjoys it. My son loves football and the boys can play every lunchtime. The school has a 4G pitch. Now this is my personal view, but I feel it suits bright boys who are not swots. As others have previously said, it's not a super selective grammar. I did view Judd and the vibe was very different to TWGSB. My son fits in at TWGSB. They do a lot of sport there and can learn to play an instrument. Discipline very good, and teaching is of a high standard.

Our view of Judd (which admittedly was shaped by anecdotes from acquaintances who didn’t have great experiences there) was that it was too one dimensional. One parent I spoke to said that her son had missed the sixth form entry requirement by just one point. The school sent a photocopied letter to say that he wouldn’t be able to come back to the sixth form and to make other arrangements! There was no phone call or follow-up from a pastoral care perspective. Pretty brutal! That said, my son has friends there in Y7 who are happy.

I can’t speak for the behaviour at Judd.

The behaviour standards are high at Skinners. The staff take any issues seriously and the pastoral care is strong. The boys have standards cards (which they must carry with them at all times) - they get merits for good behaviour and signatures for bad behaviour. This leads to structured discipline (detentions and beyond I guess) if there is consistent bad behaviour.

I haven’t heard any useful anecdotal experience from TWGSB, but my own observation (as I often drive passed it!) is that the boys are incredibly scruffy! The uniform standards appear to be quite low, which always bothers me a bit! That just wouldn’t fly at Skinners. Perhaps that’s indicative of something, perhaps not!

i have been very impressed by the sixth formers I’ve encountered at Skinners. They have all been accomplished, personable, articulate and driven/ambitious. The list of leavers destinations is impressive but I get the sense that the school is also supportive and encouraging of the less conventional gap years, degree apprenticeships, internships etc.

it’s a big school with 32(ish) in each class. This was actually a selling point for us having come from a very small prep school. He found his way very quickly and has a nice group of friends. To be honest, it was our priority that he settled in and found a good crew - which he’s done pretty much without much issue. The rest will follow! (I hope!).

Thanks for the feedback @KentMum1

On the website it looks good and sports seem to be quite diversified. We have booked a school tour in June for the TW site.

@MariahPariah what you had mentioned in the last sentence, about your DS settling in and finding a good crew, is our main concern for our DS as well, along with scoring high enough to get into the school.

Late to the party but my son is at Judd and is very happy. It’s interesting that Judd is often compared unfavourably to Skinners, but I believe it all depends on the child.

If your son is highly academic (curious about anything and everything), loves sports and music, he would likely thrive at Judd. The extracurricular opportunities are excellent, and they take rugby very seriously. (Though your son doesn’t need to sign up for teams if he doesn’t want to)

In terms of discipline Judd doesn’t punish bad behaviour in the same way other schools do. Eg I’ve heard that skinners uses a pink card system where teachers sign for poor behaviour. At Judd they focus more on recognising and celebrating achievements daily, sharing these with parents on the portal. No behavioural issues that I know of.

Thanks very much for your thoughts @MiPP much appreciated. We are waiting for the results to come out in 2 weeks. Hoping for the best of course but who knows. We are really anxious, I am guessing the results are with the headmasters of the respective schools at the moment. It's a process Kent seem to follow, not sure if it has any impact.

@expatinmys I also remember waiting was very painful. Hope all goes well! 🤞

Hi OP I have just seen his thread ,I just want to say that my two boys were at Skinners a few years ago and I cannot recommend Skinners enough. My two absolutely loved it there ,the mutual respect between the teachers and boys was amazing. The boys and their friends are all well presented,articulate,intelligent,witty successful adults ! I genuinely would send a child there over any top public school in our area…and there are a few. Everything crossed for results day !

I think that Judd and Skinners are excellent choices. Offers from either will be awesome and privileged. My son is Year 9 at Judd and I have found the quality of education, experience and support to be excellent. My daughters attended boarding school at Sevenoaks school doing IB and my son had a number of offers to top all boys private schools but decided to remain at Judd instead of transferring at Year 9. Judd recently introduced Astronomy as a GCSE and is piloting new ideas. Results are strong and getting stronger post COVID years. I have no doubt that for boys they would be loyal to either school as opportunities are many although facilities cannot match private schools this does not matter really. Extra curricular activities such Rugby or music does not matter whatsoever as the Kent Test is based on scores only. It’s up to the boys to find friendship groups and areas of interest in or out of school which many may discover on their own. That is the point of this stage of development. For instance there is a card game society that is v popular at Judd. Best of luck to you.

Also both schools are administered by the same governing body which also manages Tonbridge School. So much of a muchness.

Thanks @Lastoneleft and @Olidora
That's really great information and insight and many thanks. We are keeping our expectations realistic as DS didn't really perform extremely well in the mocks. Plus there seems to be a lot of dicussion on various forums in regards to families moving after result day, that we might get "out-miled" by new families moving in closer to the school. We are 6 miles and 10 miles from Judd and skinners. The competition seems to be fierce. We will see how things pan out. Thanks again.

Judd: communication is very poor. Bullying and disruptive behaviour is not only not addressed it is not logged sufficiently which leads to significant and very real safeguarding concerns of which there are also many. While the send provision tries to be good there has been a different SENDCo each year for the last four years and various documents are not kept well nor updated as they should be. They are very short staffed. Behaviour of students is very poor and staff are either unwilling or unable to address this. Headteacher does not respond and neither do other members of SLT to serious concerns. They are only motivated by the academic achievements of their pupils.

@SpoonySnail thank you for sharing alternate views on Judd School and this awful to understand where the school is struggling as SENCO and bullying are not acceptable and require strong leadership to address if Judd is to remain one of the more competitive options for boys in Kent. I hope that these issues are being raised by though parent association a the school. My perspective was simply one of many possible and I hoped that outcomes including welfare and academic outcomes for the boys at Judd could be improved. I will be alert to any issues raised.

Seconding this DS ( now 20) went to Skinners I have not one bad word to say about it. They could not have done more. He is at Oxbridge just started his final year and totally thriving ( he does sport, has a lovely girlfriend and is focused on the next steps).

Possibly not hugely relevant… but as a teenage grammar girl in the area 15+ years ago boyfriends from Skinners were much nicer, better behaved and more well-rounded people than boyfriends from Judd!

Thanks @SpoonySnail and @Neurodiversitydoctor
We will wait to see what results DS gets. He sat for the Bexley test as well but the results although passed but were not great so we are being realistic with our expectations for the Kent results.

I saw “he’s at Oxbridge “ and smiled very broadly as tho he were my own child. Love seeing kids doing so well. Well done to him.

Only just seen this. My 3 boys are at or have been at Skinners (one now at Cambridge). Eldest actively chose Skinners over Judd - it's a fabulous school, creates well rounded young men. Brilliant music and drama, excellent sport - even for the non sporty (my youngest hates rugby so fences). Pastoral care has been good and the SLT are excellent..don't have a bad word for the school really!

(My daughter was at TWGGS and that was less positive, but there is a new head so maybe things will now improve)

Good luck to anyone waiting on Kent test results today 😊

On the theme of Tunbridge/Tonbridge grammar schools, anyone have any recent insight/feedback on academics, pastoral etc on Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for boys?

Hi....DS scored 367. A relief to get this over with to be honest. We will be applying for Skinners as 1st choice although chances are slim and we are 10 miles away. We are hoping we can just about squeeze in with all the movement that might take place from now to March.
Thanks for all your input, support and advise , it was really good to read all the opinions and thoughts on the schools. Thanks for sharing. Wondering how the other DCs scored if anyone is willing to share.....