Homework

[Abc43]

My 2 DDs (year 1 and year 4) go to a small independent school. They are happy but the amount of homework is ruining all our time at home. I work full time and pick them up at 6pm every day, we get home 6.20, eat till 7 and then homework bring us to 7.30, bath and sleep. The issue is they are so tired that homework is very very hard and many evenings it is just a fight. The year 4 has every other day 2 pages either math or English and 2 pages of Atom, plus 15 spelling words for Friday, piano and a poem to learn for speech and drama. the year 1 has 20 words to learn for Friday and a level 5 booklet to read. It is probably 30 mins to do both but they are the worst 30 min of my day. Instead of eating and chatting, be relaxed, read a book together, I need to keep on pushing them to do these homework. We try to do as much as possible over the weekend (piano, speech and drama, spelling) but since many days we cannot finish the weekly homework we have these plus additional weekend homework. The year 4 will have at least 45 mins between math and English and 2 atoms. They year 1 has 4 pages of exercises linked with the 20 spelling words (which I need to do a bit Saturday and Sunday or it is too much in one go), 2 pages of English, 5-10 pages of math plus booklet to read. I am finding to cancel many of our social activities on Sundays as I need the day to get them to do homework.
i M exhausted and they are too.
I spoke with the school but they say many parents actually asked for more homework (they pick up their kid at 4.30-5 so they have more time in the evening plus just one kids, while I have two) so they are pushed to actually increase the quantity.
I m thinking to change school and I went to visit a few other independent schools in the area, they all say they give a few homework but not too much, but the school I had chosen said the same.
AIBU and this is the normal amount of homework independent schools give?
do kids have 30 mins a day plus a few hours during the weekend plus musical instruments, timetables and reading?

Since they get up late and seem unmotivated to get through breakfast, and could do homework in the afternoon after school but choose not to, I'd say the issue is avoidance / lack of motivation rather than being un-academic.

I'd be very tempted to start bribing them. They may need some sort of tangible reward for signs of self-discipline.

Marble jars can work well - for every day they come home with homework done (you should check it) they get a marble. Or if they come home and get it done without the hassle, that's a marble too.

For every day they get up, dressed, beds made, breakfast eaten, and teeth brushed within certain deadlines, they get a marble.

Ten marbles in a week equals some reward they would appreciate. You could do a bonus for a month's worth of ten marbles a week to help them develop a sense of looking to the future.

This. You may have phds etc but that was achieved in adulthood. These are young children. I feel sorry for them

I support this view. I was a B grade student, 2:2 at uni, now earning 140k. That's not a typo.

Grades only matter to a point. Ability to apply logic, not give up, people skills and adaptability under pressure are more important. You learn that in sports or other activities.

Posters claiming the children do nothing but work need their critical reading skills checked. They have a normal school day and then do after school clubs of their choosing and have free play/dinner at school. Also, if op’s indie is anything like my dc’s indie, there is LOADS of fun time and down time (including about 2x as much unstructured play vs their former state school). They have a full day, and are understandably tired at the end, but it is hardly a life of toil and drudgery.

i used to be very anti homework, but have actually come around to embracing it as an important bridge between home and school. As long as it is age appropriate in duration, it shouldn’t really hinder downtime in most scenarios as can be done in bits and pieces.

OP I might try to get your y4 to do homework during after school care, and then spend 5 mins going over it with her in the evenings. I think it is a bit shit that the school isn’t more supportive, but at 9 I think it is reasonable to expect her to take some responsibility. For y1, the bit that really matters is reading, probably followed by spelling (assuming she has a weekly quiz)- I would focus on getting that done and then frame everything else as bonus practice.

And second vote for @mathanxiety suggestion of bribery age appropriate rewards system

After school clubs because mum works full time. Doesn’t matter how you spin it, it’s still a very long day at school.

I agree, it's a long day with tired children. My Yr 2 happily still goes to bed between 7-7.30 during the week (same time as younger DC)... OPs Yr 1 is only starting homework at this time.

@Chichimcgee what a snarky comment. It might have not been your intention, but it comes across as guilt tripping a working mother who is doing her best to provide high quality after school care that her kids enjoy and allows her to do her job. Great that you choose to (and are able to) make different arrangements with your child, but there is a lot of value in good, varied after school clubs. I wouldn’t automatically assume that kids brought home at 3pm have a better quality of life - many don’t.

my children (y2) kick up a fuss if I try to collect them before 4:30/5pm. They love the clubs and they love the unstructured after school care even more - for them it is a way of decompressing from the more structured elements of school. If I let them, they would happily stay for dinner too (and would also probably expect a second dinner at home). We have a great home life and get loads of quality time together, but they also really really love their school and most days would stay as long as allowed if left up to them.

I didn’t read it like that. Plus they were replying to you, not OP.

The OP started this thread as she is finding it all too much. It’s great that you are happy with your life but expecting a year 1 child to do music practice and homework after a late dinner at 7pm is not how OP wants to move forward.

Not guilt tripping at all. You said the children have a normal school day and choose after school clubs. They haven’t asked to do after school clubs, they do them because mum works.
Maybe your children need less sleep than average but I don’t see how you can have quality time when 5 days a week children are at school long hours and doing homework, then weekends are catching up with homework.
I also find it quite sad that small children would rather be at school than at home but as I said before I obviously have different values.

They haven’t asked to do after school clubs, they do them because mum works.

They do after school clubs because both parents work.

That is so true. If OPs DH didn't work away 4 nights a week then I doubt she would be feeling so swamped.

Well OP now has some options that might work for her unique situation and parenting non negotiables.

Move school to one that might give more homework but supports pupils doing it after school (and perhaps has higher aspirations for secondary schools).
Stay at the school and hire an after school nanny to pick children up after enrichment clubs, bring them home, feed them and supervise homework/instrument practice.
Move schools (as lets face it OP hasn't painted a particularly good picture of the one they are currently at) perhaps even to a state school and hire an afterschool nanny plus a tutor for the older child (seriously OP you could easily hire a part-time housekeeper if you ditched 2 x private fees!).
OP I hope you can find a resolution to your problems. Family time at this age is so important and you are quite right to not want to sacrifice your weekends to homework.

Don't worry about your DCs they don't sound unmotivated or slow they sound very tired. Once you have a new routine sorted and they get some early nights I'm sure they will be just as academic and hardworking as you and your DH.

Hello
in addition to the above, another suggestion is to move to state school and thus reduce need for one parent to work full time ie no need for nanny and more time with family. I understand the appeal of private school but not if parents are working all hours and completely swamped. It can’t be a nice quality of life for the family if all are overwhelmed.

That presumes the only reason both parents are working full time is to afford school fees. There are lots of reasons both parents choose to / have to work full time (or part time with a non-school schedule). Private school frequently makes it much easier on working parents by providing high quality and comprehensive wraparound care, allowing parents to juggle less and kids to have more extracurricular experiences.

@Chichimcgee I find the interjection of ‘values’ quite strange and out of place in a practical discussion of homework. I also don’t see how choosing to use after school clubs is different than having to use after school clubs when the end result is the same - op states that her kids love their clubs and would be sad to let them go.

I could flip the narrative and bemoan how sad it is that your children don’t have a school they love as much as mine (priorities?) and are unable to experience the breadth of extracurriculars, but that would show a shocking lack of awareness of my family’s own privilege. Being able to send your kids to private is a privilege, but so is being able to collect them at 3 from the school gate. Family life looks different in every household, and I wouldn’t presume to judge others with different financial, logistical or physical constraints.

There are several options:

1. you completely change the routine so kids get up early and all homework is done then. We did this- 1 lot of music practice and homework in the mornings. Evenings are bath, cuddle, listen to story time so everyone is more relaxed. It works very well once you get into the routine (note this is for primary, it changes for teens but they do their own homework anyway);

2. you simply stop doing it; and

3. you email the school and insist it is done there under supervision. I mean even our state primary managed that for kids who needed intervention or were otherwise struggling with homework.

Are they in private school? From what I understand, private school seems to give more homework. Send them to state and you will get less homework :) My dc are in state school and do not get much homework (even in year 5/6). Eldest did well, moved on do an academically selective school (G&L). Middle dc is year 5 so we started 11+ prep, which sounds like the equivalent amount of time you are spending on HW currently....but we also have one hour week session w a tutor to cover anything not covered at school for 11+. HW takes my dc 10-15 mins a week (total...they are given just one sheet of math and one short comprehension for the entire week! plus spellings, but he never looks at spelling bc he just naturally knows how to spell everything via reading). Prior to 11+ we were very lax. Dc enjoyed reading and did well in school so we focused more on sports and playing outside. If dc are doing well in school, no need to drill them more outside of school. You could also ask if you could some of the hw during the weekend instead, so for example they only do two days worth of hw during the weekend and weekends they can do 3 days worth?

I think homework depends on the school. Our state primary even in Year 2 gave 10 spellings, at least 1 hour homework per week (big Maths or English thing), 3 reading books a week. Plus an online Maths website. Very high attaining state primary.
Moreover, if leadership changes in any school so does the homework policy. I really would not be changing schools if the children are otherwise happy. I would speak to the school and tell them to support more homework in after school club. Surely a fee paying school would not want you to take 2 DC out? Even our state primary always listend and would not want to lose good families.

These are all good tips as well. I was thinking morning too, if you can manage...some dc wake early (mine dont though!).

And agreed, school should offer some sort of hw help after school....our state does this as well, as a hw club....dc are supposed to complete at least one item of hw during.

It doesn't presume anything. It was just a suggestion.

Seriously how bad was your previous state school?

I'm probably going to out myself here but my DCs 1 form state school offers fantastic wrap around care - a free breakfast club from 7.45 (which my DD loves going to for early morning instructed play), several enrichment breakfast clubs (choir, cricket, netball), in-house after school wrap around care until 6.15 and several choices of enrichment clubs until 4.15 every day.

My yr 2 could attend a different enrichment club every night (including a weekly homework club)... but I think 4 nights and 2 morning enrichment clubs is enough! They also employ a part time councillor as being a state school some children have issues and need some support. This doesn't make it a dodgy school it makes it a fantastic school as they nip any behavioural issues in the bud. I know if I had any issues (i.e. I wanted my DD to do homework in the after school club) they would support this.
OPs private school doesn't sound half as good as my state school.
All my local primary schools offer similar (minus the councillor). So please stop with the narrative that private school are so much better than state schools.

@gettingthereonemistakeatatime you might want to re-read the comment I was responding to. That poster recommended switching to state so that op could work less, do more childcare herself instead of asc and have a less stressful life. I am merely pointing out that 1) there are all kinds of reasons why dropping from full time work in order to provide childcare is not desirable, and it has nothing to do with school fees, and 2) that private schools are generally more attuned to the needs of working parents simply because their income depends upon it and therefore typically have better wraparound provision in the sense that they can offer longer hours, guarantee access and provide more diversity in clubs/ activities. I don’t think any of that is controversial.

it’s great that your school offers such extensive wraparound, btw, but many many state schools do not. None in my area would - some schools offer nothing (many asc programs have been eliminated entirely) and of those that remain many cannot guarantee a place (oversubscribed). What is provided tends to be basic at the junior school level - a bit of colouring and free play. More diverse options might be available for older children. For most of the families in my dc school (children and adults alike) life would be more stressful in one of the local state schools.

seriously? we're talking about kids who aren't even 10 yet, how can you possibly know what universities theyre aiming for (and how on earth could extra homework at this stage possibly help??)

You weren't responding you were chastising someone who was leaving a perfectly reasonable suggestion for the OP.

And there you go again with your state school prejudice
'its' great that your school offers such extensive wraparound, btw, but many many state schools do not'.

This is not my experience at all. All my local state schools offer lots - that's the advantage of bigger class sizes - more children to participate. I know of private schools that don't offer much in the way of extra curricular or have limited, first-come-first served wrap around care. Some, like OPs won't even support their pupils with their homework even when, like OP, they request it. Some private schools don't even offer a hot school meal and children have to take a packed lunch. There are many private schools that assume that there will be a SAHM or a Nanny to ferry the children to all the local after school club. Just as there are many state schools who have many pupils with parents who don't work so don't offer much in the way of after school classes . Guess what! Parents don't choose that school, they choose another one.

Also I know parents who have pulled their children out of private and into state primary, not because they can't afford it but because they were left underwhelmed and irritated once they glossy brochure became a daily reality. I don't know of anyone in my area that has moved from state to private before secondary (even those with SEN stay state). Places are plentiful at primary schools, even at over subscribed state schools, and in year places very common.

OP hasn't said where she lives and she needs to check out the state schools in her area if this is a consideration (which is may not be as she has never indicated she won't continue with a private education).

What she, and anyone else who reads this thread doesn't need, is you constantly harping on about how much better private schools are and telling them that 'many many state schools don't offer this' when that is simply not true.

I think the difficulty is expectations from a prep school? I imagine amongst the reasons parents may choose a private school includes education, and in most cases, a good foundation for 11+ exams. I'm not sure many prep schools don't give homework and parents would expect that? I appreciate it's difficult (I have Yr3 and Yr4 children in independent schools) and mine would definitely not want to do work at 7pm either. I would do as others have said and say you must do this at school, otherwise x,y and z won't be available (computer games or whatever) and ask the school to support them to do this. Or if they have already eaten ask them to do their homework as soon as they get in and then they can have another snack?

A solution might be to forget the after school club at least a day or two a week and get an au pair or nice student to pick them up take them home and supervise their homework. Depending where you live you may be able to find student or even senior school girl/ neighbour's academic daughter to do this and be very glad of the pocket money. Another friend I know got older lady/ substitute granny ( retired primary school teacher) to do this.