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Email wording and safeguarding

38 replies

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 14:12

I wonder if anybody could help me with an email writing sent from school. The email uses the words "really very concerned stress levels and heightens anxiety". if you as a teacher had seen a change in a child within two weeks and your worried about their stress levels would this be report worthy to mash? I'm trying to find something can kcsie but I can't find anything about sudden changes and behaviour thank you

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whiteboardking · 14/01/2024 14:32

Sorry that post makes no sense to me

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 14:39

Sorry I'm dyslexic

School has emailed me. They say they are really concerned about a rapid escalation of my child's behaviour, stress and anxiety. Ie a rapid personality change.

Is this a safeguarding concern? Is this situation mentioned in kcsie ( keeping children safe in education).

Ie if school see a rapid rise in anxiety in violence in a child should they seek help from MASH ( multi agency safeguarding hub Ie socail services).

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DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 14:40

Sorry its aimed at people working in education so MASH and kcsie are common abbreviations in safeguarding

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MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 14/01/2024 14:42

So are you worried about a report or your child?

Misscloudycat · 14/01/2024 14:43

Much more detail needed, but yes potentially. It's not a bad thing.

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 14:48

MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 14/01/2024 14:42

So are you worried about a report or your child?

I think it's a serious and they should have reported us to social care as they keep asking what's changed at home. Veiled insinuations it's us. Unless I'm paranoid.

They have seen my child fall apart and extreme violence from no where, but as far as I'm aware no one has thought of MASH

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DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 14:50

My child has SEN and I have had a decade of gaslighting saying I'm the cause of the diagnosis so I welcome socail care. I feel its a threat but I don't do threats of socail care, don't imply report me.

My child has from nowhere turned into a rabid animal at school within two weeks. Why is no one thinking abuse? And surely if you think abuse you report it

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handmademitlove · 14/01/2024 14:56

Sudden changes in personality can be a sign of concern that is mentioned in kcsie. But it also mentions the need for consideration where a child has Sen that it may be related to the Sen, so it is more complex.

Misscloudycat · 14/01/2024 14:56

You can approach mash yourself if you're concerned

Littlebluebird123 · 14/01/2024 14:57

Without the whole content it's hard to know. A dramatic change in behaviour is something which is flagged up under safeguarding but the first step isn't usually to report unless serious risk of harm. The first step is to find out what might have made the change by asking the parent for example.

It seems like they are reporting what they have seen to you and asking if you can give an explanation or if you're seeing the same.

They may well already have contact with other agencies as your child has SEN so may not mention a MASH referral. We don't call it that for example, we would name the service spoken to.

Have they asked if you want Early Help referral?

Have you said you want social services referral?

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 15:05

handmademitlove · 14/01/2024 14:56

Sudden changes in personality can be a sign of concern that is mentioned in kcsie. But it also mentions the need for consideration where a child has Sen that it may be related to the Sen, so it is more complex.

Can you give me the paragraph please?

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thatsjustthewayitisok · 14/01/2024 15:08

I think you're a bit confused.

Something can be a safeguarding issue but not require reporting to MASH as a child protection concern.

Sounds like an early help referral could benefit you, but you should be involved in that collaboratively and with your consent.

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 15:09

Littlebluebird123 · 14/01/2024 14:57

Without the whole content it's hard to know. A dramatic change in behaviour is something which is flagged up under safeguarding but the first step isn't usually to report unless serious risk of harm. The first step is to find out what might have made the change by asking the parent for example.

It seems like they are reporting what they have seen to you and asking if you can give an explanation or if you're seeing the same.

They may well already have contact with other agencies as your child has SEN so may not mention a MASH referral. We don't call it that for example, we would name the service spoken to.

Have they asked if you want Early Help referral?

Have you said you want social services referral?

They have asked us repeatedly verbally and in emails more than twice now. We clearly didn't satisfy there question the first time.

Yes we desperately need early help but school have never mention early help or socail care in any form.

From my point of view they are hammering it's serious, they suspect its us, yet do nothing.

Like gaslighting. It's you, but I wouldn't want to prove it's you. I won't stand by my assertion it's you and be counted

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HarlaEB · 14/01/2024 15:16

KCSiE paragraphs 20-45 give you some of the information. There are also links to the NSPCC etc.

tarheelbaby · 14/01/2024 15:51

It sounds like you are doing your best in a tough situation.
In safeguarding training, which all teachers have regularly, obvious changes in behaviour are something to follow up for a variety of reasons. Changes in behaviour are mentioned in KICSE but, as it says in that document, they don't always indicate abuse.

I would expect the DSL at your school is trying tactfully to determine why your child's behaviour has changed. Teachers care about pupils and want to help them. If your DC is struggling, teachers will want to try to resolve this.

Tactful, neutral inquiries via email might sound vague and possibly accusatory to you but are probably meant to be open ended so that you have the space you need to share info - new partner, recent bereavement (pet? grandparent?), stressful situation (change of job or address?) - any of which can be perfectly normal but still unsettling for a child. It may feel nosy or judgemental.

If nothing genuinely has changed in your home situation, be strong in your answers and turn the tables by asking the DSL what might have changed at school for your DC: new teacher? new topic? new classmate(s)? We're just a few weeks into term so maybe your DC is still adjusting to being back in school after the Christmas hols.

Don't mention the emails (obvs) but try to ask your DC calmly what may have changed: 'How's it going at school? What are some things you like? What are some things you're not happy about?' It might be easiest and most effective to have this convo whilst you're driving somewhere or walking the dog or doing some other activity to make it a little less intense.

whiteboardking · 14/01/2024 16:57

If that happened to us I'd be arranging to go into school for a chat. They are concerned

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 17:20

whiteboardking · 14/01/2024 16:57

If that happened to us I'd be arranging to go into school for a chat. They are concerned

We was asked to go for a chat. This was sent in a email hours later.

What's going on at home?
Nothing, we can think of nothing.

Emailed to ask again.

We don't think they was satisfied with our answer the first time so why not if you don't belive it did they not raise it with higher up? This follows on from a educational psychologist report that again had veiled implications of problems at home. I raised that with them too, but it remains in her EP report, going to the dsl as she was looking forward to the holidays. So they took her to the dsl to ask why. She said she would miss her school friends. Yet its still attached to her ehcp

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DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 17:28

I'm worried that they aren't following safeguarding here. There is nothing to hide. But at the same time they seem determined it's not coming from school. They haven even mentioned the possibility it's school.

I just honestly feel worried they are way out of their depth with some pretty basic stuff. Like this. They asked some gentle open ended probing questions but it didn't satisfy them. So they just ask again.

It's like asking how your child got a bruise on the inside of the arm. You ask the parent, your not satisfied by the parents answer so you ask again.

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thatsjustthewayitisok · 14/01/2024 17:46

I see you've completely ignored my post. I do work in safeguarding in schools btw.

The behaviour your describe is not likely to meet the threshold for MASH referral.

This doesn't necessarily mean that this hasn't been logged as a safeguarding concern by the school. Communicating with a parent is very often a first course of action in the event of a safeguarding concern.

Separately, I'm finding you very defensive and I think if you carry on in this tone you are going to be unable to work with the school collaboratively in the best interests of your child.

KeepGoingThomas · 14/01/2024 18:10

If you feel you need social care support why not request assessments yourself?

Woush · 14/01/2024 18:27

I'm a Safeguarding Lead, secondary school.

The information you have given here is not at threshold for MASH.

They are asking you for information to see if you give additional contextual info that does raise it yo MASH threshold. They will have also asked the child. They evidently do not have any additional info that elevates to MASH threshold.

The change is sudden you say? To reach threshold for anything meaningful from Early Help, the school need to show a graduated responce (ie, we tried this, it didn't help, do we tried this, that also didn't help, so we tried this instead, that also hasn't helped so Early Help, can you try instead?).

In two weeks, they are at thr point where they have noted the change and are how monitoring. They may be offering some low-level in-school extra support - maybe mentoring, time out, mental health support, opportunities to talk to trusted adults. These form the graduated responce.

What to do next? Make it known to school you consent to, and request, an Early Help referral.

KatyPerryMenopause · 14/01/2024 18:52

Hi OP
Are you angry because you're being blamed/gaslit again?
Are you angry because they aren't meeting the EHCP and looking for excuses/scapegoats?
Are you angry because there is no practical help?
Has your child regressed or is lashing out and you don't know why?
Can you not self-refer to CAHMS (understaffed/overwhelmed) or Social Services?

What would you help you do you think?

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 19:16

Sorry I'm not intentionally ignoring any responses.

I'm not really sure what I'm angry about tbh. I don't want to be asked a third time on another day what's going on at home I guess. School don't follow the ehcp but schools rarely do.

I want to get to the root of the issue and its cause and make the behaviour stop I guess? Want to be like other parents that don't have these conversations and are off the sencos radar maybe?

A professional in the LA has mentioned early help, camhs is a good idea but they are utterly crap in my county

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KeepGoingThomas · 14/01/2024 19:23

If DC is not receiving the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F then you can enforce it (ultimately it is the LA who is responsible). If the wording is too woolly to be enforced you need to request an early review to tighten it up,

MH support can be in the EHCP without the need to sit on the normal CAMHS waiting lists. You should request an early review if there isn’t already provision in there.

Woush · 14/01/2024 20:27

DyslexicPoster · 14/01/2024 19:16

Sorry I'm not intentionally ignoring any responses.

I'm not really sure what I'm angry about tbh. I don't want to be asked a third time on another day what's going on at home I guess. School don't follow the ehcp but schools rarely do.

I want to get to the root of the issue and its cause and make the behaviour stop I guess? Want to be like other parents that don't have these conversations and are off the sencos radar maybe?

A professional in the LA has mentioned early help, camhs is a good idea but they are utterly crap in my county

This is a telling answer because you present an oxymoron. You want to fly under the radar and not be noticed, whilst also being angry at the behaviour issue not being acted on seriously enough.

I wonder how much of your behaviour is lead by parental feelings like fear or judgement, guilt, blame? None of which are useful for helping your child.

It isn't and shouldn't be a problem to be on the SENDCOs radar. Especially with an EHCP, your child should be firmly high on SENDCOs radar.

If you see changes in your child that are concerning, it also shouldn't be a problem bring high on the DSLs radar, since they are there to help with these situations.

If your child's behaviour has rapidly changed, it's very right the school are repeatedly talking to you about this - they are as concerned by it as you are. Talking to you about it doesn't mean blame/fault/judgement. You (should) know your child better than school - you are absolutely the right person to keep this conversation going with. School want to get to the bottom of it, like you do.