20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

Many parents in the UK currently send their children to private schools, out of sheer desperation at the lack of funding and/or places, at their local school. Even though they totally disaprove of private edu, but will not sacrifice their kids' chances due to their principles. I get that.

@Herecomesthesunshine83

"Out of all my mum friends, only two of us work full time...coincidentally we're also the only two who send our children to private school. If they do add VAT onto fees we will take our two children out of the school (not sure where they will go as we couldn't get them into any of the village schools round here). But one thing I do know is that I will reduce my working hours because what is the point in slogging my guts out - so actually I'll just pay an awful lot less tax. So for my family they'll have to find two more state school places and receive a lot less tax to fund it!"

I completely agree with this. My children go to state primary but my husband and I both work full time in difficult jobs and are saving for private secondary. So many other mums in the state school work part time or not at all and have no plans for PS at any stage. That is absolutely fine for them, and their choice to make. However we have different plans and so are working towards being able to fund PS. It's not as simple as a rich/poor divide.

‘State Education in thos countries are really well funded, with great facilities, excellent staff and small class sizes-‘

if only we lived in one of the world’s wealthiest countries where this could be possible too? … oh wait, we ARE already one of the world’s wealthiest countries?

Why do people bang on about this plus U.K. being a ‘third world country’ on mn

They need to get in a room together and argue it out

How can you consider yourself to be WC when you have a household income in excess of £400k per annum?

Surely any household that has a take home pay of £20k+ per month is being somewhat disingenuous to claim that.

I’ll ask again how much voluntary income tax do you pay? On £400k+ per annum you are surely in a better position than nearly everyone else to do some good for society.

I happen to think that PAYE higher rate at 40% shouldn't go higher, i think TH's should increase and the 0% TH should be restored ay high rates of pay, however, tac cuts shouldn't be a priority atm.

BUT i think we need to start taxing unearned income similar to earned income, if i make 50k on my S&P investment fund, why shouldn't it be taxed at my rate of income tax?
Council tax bands are all wrong at E and beyond, need to increase with help for people live in expensive E + rated but with low incomes.

Money for education has to be found, the status quo is costing us more and more the longer we delay.

Through poor governance, a country can have extremely poor public services etc but still be very wealthy.
Which is pretty much where the UK is atm.

We aren't 3rd world though, anyone who has been to a dev country will vouch for that but we are rapidly falling behind comparable countries.

The pp @Whazzabanger is at the top end of any wealth divide so could equalise by just giving it away to do their bit

It’s bizarre how free and easy they are with other people’s money whilst having their own

PAYE top rate is 45% and that also ignores the removal of personal allowance which creates a marginal rate of 60% + NI for a chunk of earnings.

Why should people in expensive houses on lower incomes get support?

I effectively forgo a big house to fund things such as school fees. Why should I pay far more than they do simply because they decided to spend their money on property?

The idea of taxing unearned income more makes sense and has in part already been addressed at the lower level with the CGT changes but I agree more needs to be done.

You work with some strange people then

Whazzabanger · Today 13:20

I have many, many colleagues who privately educate their children who do it because it’s expected of them, background and income.

No doubt you make your views on private education quite clear to your colleagues. How does that go down?

The person going on about the wealth divide on this thread is the one who contributes to it most

A farce for sure. Is it political lobbying they do for work

People who think top grades are the goal have truly missed what privilege means. Prep schools give smaller classes which means more time for children to develop facilitated social skills. It means lower stress, better food and loads more physical activity which we know directly affects their ability to think. We need critical and imaginative thinkers not people who got

‘We need critical and imaginative thinkers’

so the opposite of what’s churned out of private schools then? Where money means everyone looks the same, thinks the same, is for the same background, who’s mummy’s and daddy’s all have the similar professions and/or family wealth.
You won’t find a less imaginative setting than your average private school.
squeezing all the little Hugo’s and Violets Charlotte’s and Clemmies into the same moulds.

Although as you have zero experience of private schools then how do you know this?
Does that mean that every child who attends state school is a chav because that's the flip side to that statement?!
Your assertions are getting more and more ridiculous as the thread goes on, this one is completely hilarious and just highlights your own reverse snobbery.

This is nuts

What is it that you do with your £400k+ annual household income to ensure that more people are critical and imaginative thinkers?

Do you invest in your local state schools and if not why not when your household has £20k per month take home pay?

With such a vast income you and your family are clearly living a far more privileged life compared with virtually all those who you appear to detest. Maybe I’m missing something but why are you measuring yourself differently to how you measure others when you are quite literally the worst offender on here in terms of creating inequality.

Strong bridge dwelling vibes

So clear you have no actual understanding of private school.

One thing my children’s schools have taught them is how to have a civilised debate with people you may have a different opinion from, without resorting to personal attacks and being downright spiteful.

My children’s school also has a much more diverse range of backgrounds than my state school had.

I am going to say it again, educational values in the middle classes are instilled by the parents primarily, not the school the kids attend. If all schools were properly funded, all schools had the same quality of teachers and resources and the same exact reflection of society with a true representation of poor, working class, middle class and the elite, then mixing the kids in this way would lead to good outcomes for all, if every child was individually stimulated as well.

What we have in the UK is very far from this because we have a catchment based system primarily in the state sector where the middle classes buy their way into selection by house price and class and “one of their own” and dare I say it, some of the working class are at it too, because they also don’t want their kids to go to the posh school. You can see it in the state sector and I am sure you can also see it in the private sector where some very posh people will choose a totally different private school for their own DC vs someone who wants a diverse school etc or coed or whatever they market themselves at hothouse, sporty, thespian etc etc. The state sector in London, at least, has almost the same level of choice if you have some money and can move and rent in different areas or tutor your kids. Parents have a lot of choice and the flip side of that is that way too much school engineering is going on in all sectors, especially by the middle classes. The irony is that the middle class kids have the foundation of educational values instilled from conception so they are generally going to be OK anyway.
Now the Labour Party would just love it if the educationally motivated middle class parent who makes their kid read every day and play the piano could someone get another kid to do the same despite living in poverty and their parent not speaking any English or being on the generational dole. That however, would actually be the teacher’s job and the Government’s job.
Our children have been failed during the pandemic and we should resist any interference by a new Government into the Education sector which does not involve extra money. We should support teachers striking and we should demand better for all children, whether state or private or SEN schools. It is very important that despite our views differing on private vs state that we unite in that regard. Because they are using the division to stop funding happening and it will harm all our children and their future.

Some of the higher end expensive schools (esp with boarders) will certainly fall into that category, as will some state schools.

I was just thinking of someone i know who used a PS, lovely single mum, no SENs provision, her child did brilliantly in a 5.5k per term school.
Her child is married now, runs her own business, successful.

Wonder how she'd have turned out if left without help in the state sector?

Fortunately born into a family with a high earner but what a terrible shame that so many UK children do not have anything like this level of support and never achieve.

As i said early, its pity so many posters just think about themselves and don't vote to have better funded education for all.

If just for the purpose of funding education, the labour should just freeze the high level income tax band, much much less contraversal and more effective than the 20% VAT idea.