20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

What consultants do when they ve used up their NHS operating lists, is irrelevant.
Consultants are limited in how many NHS lists they can do by ward space, staff equipment etc etc, so they do private work, often fro the NHS, as private hospitals have unused capacity for more basic elective surgery esp where a ICU wont be need.

I think you re just taking this discussion into the realms of fantasy.

Taking it back to normality, why don't private schools do more to help state kids? i know some do excellent stuff but many do not.
I'm not talking more bursaries but shared free facilities, teaching, leadership?

One thing that helped my DD education was the school had ex pupils come back in and do talks on their career choices, we had a Navy Commander, a CEO, even a head teacher come in and do inspirational speaking.
The idea for this came with co op between her state school and a private one.

"Taking it back to normality, why don't private schools do more to help state kids? i know some do excellent stuff but many do not."

Many do, but why should they? Why is down to private schools to help state schools? It's nothing to do with them.

I don't know where this thinking comes from that you just expect money and resources from others while berating them for even existing.

“One thing that helped my DD education was the school had ex pupils come back in and do talks on their career choices, we had a Navy Commander, a CEO, even a head teacher come in and do inspirational speaking.
The idea for this came with co op between her state school and a private one.”

My DD’s state school is in a MAT with one of the best girls private schools in the country. This state school has also produced some of the best sporting talent quite recently. They already have a good state alumni network, why do you need a private school for such a basic and free idea? Did they do the backup admin to get in touch with the alumni?

And tapping into alumni for donations is done by volunteering 6th formers or recent leavers. State schools can easily do that, they just need the Government of the day to ok it and make it a donation that can qualify for gift aid and free of inheritance tax. These are not complicated things that can easily be implemented. You just need the state school leavers and parents to submit their data and consent to being contacted. And Sixth Formers produce the News to keep alumni in the loop, many grammars do this anyway.

It was an example, thats all, started many years at her school, the idea first suggested by a private school to inspire pupils, it may be a simple thing but state tend not to do it, some of course may not produce too many outstanding students.

But why aren't more private helping state across the whole spectrum of education?

If they did, then perhaps this tax would be far less justifiable.

Not suggesting "donations" to state, tends to just cause a postcode lottery.

Inspiring the Future is a charity that is essentially a database of willing speakers for any school to call on if they want to organise an event for students to learn about careers.

Speakers can also do mock interviews.

This charity has been running since 2012.

Let’s not pretend that the private education sector MUST be VATable so they could help the state sector come up with ideas for a careers evening.

“But why aren't more private helping state across the whole spectrum of education?”

Err, that would be the Government’s job?! Sure some private schools are charities and have to show some public benefit, but Education and Equality that is the Government’s job.

Why can state schools not ask for donations? As long as the donations then do not corrupt the teachers where is the actual problem? I have given plenty of donations to our PTAs, for example. They have used it to buy sports equipment and similar.
Why did you assume I am a private school parents just because I do not agree with this ridiculous policy that does not stack up? I am not even a Torie. Why can we not call a pot a pot?!

In any event, Cambridge university ask me for donations all the time. I am not offended. If they can tap into alumni (who give their consent) why can’t state schools on a much bigger basis?

https://www.brighterfuturesgwh.nhs.uk/what-we-do/why-support-the-nhs-with-donations/

Well i did say i wanted to see more evidence for this policy first.

The problem with donations is the schools in the better off areas get it all, the sink schools get nothing, meanwhile the better schools flourish... nothing bad in that its self but state education should not be relying on donations.

You expect the Government to do this? Yes of course but they don't, they could start by funding teachers pay and attract more into teaching, they don't do that either.

The problem with donations is the schools in the better off areas get it all, the sink schools get nothing, meanwhile the better schools flourish... nothing bad in that its self but state education should not be relying on donations.

That is easily solved by donations into MATs? And richer ones have to share donations with poorer ones?

None of it is rocket science. People want to give and see the effects of their own cash spent how they want it spent. Just make it all charitable donations and see it works its magic. Our governments are useless, time to accept that.

My DC went to a state primary opposite an old people’s home. They used to write letters to each other. Several residents left sizeable donations to the PTA.

‘It's not a done deal that they win the GE

Labour may well not care if I vote for them or not, but they definitely care if I get off my backside and go and vote for the Tories.’

yeah, forget the destruction of our economy, the NHS, that public services are falling apart, we’re back tracking on every pledge to protect the environment and try to slow down climate disaster, that the country is a shambles, the U.K. is a joke to other nations…
so long as George and Clemmy’s parents don’t have to fork out any more on their private school fees. That’s all that really matters.

Would people still make a donation if they knew it may well go to another school?

Thats weird, my friends school used to do this, started out when a teachers mum went into a care home, she'd visit with her own children and residents loved seeing them, gave her an idea.

Don't know if anyone left anything, most didn't have capacity to make a new Will.

Nail on head!

On the environment, the UK has said it will abide by current EU laws but EU laws change, we are not keeping to the updated ones eg hedge row destruction, pesticides.

anyone who votes Tory based solely on VAT school fees, is probably rich enough to leave the UK v easily

Must have missed that @EasternStandard not read anyone say that.

Those parents aren’t going to do much in terms of funding

Even posters on here have said they don’t care if these policies bring in zero.

Some people vote for what is important to them. Scoff all you want, most of them don’t even admit it in public, so you’ve no idea if you’re walking amongst them or not.

But there’s plenty who vote like it behind closed doors.

Hectoring doesn’t exactly change minds yet here it always is.

When Labour have spent over a decade in opposition and their two high profile commitments so far, namely putting VAT on education and not deviating from EU laws, are simply not compatible, what makes you think they will be anything but a shambles?

As for UK being a joke to other nations, this proposal will make the UK the only major economy to legally consider education a luxury. Not sure you’re making the point you think you are.

Yep plus have people picked up world news lately

The level of insularity on here is nuts

So reform of NHS, Green investment & Crime has passed you by?

Manifesto not yet published, do you know what the Tories policies into the next election and beyond are?
Sunak only just recently back tracked on pretty much all of the net zero targets, so thats one i suppose.

Starmers speech wasn't "policy" and he specifically mentions workers rights, environment, food standards not VAT on school fees.

However, i'm not a fan of making education a political football, there really should be national consensus on this but as this thread proves, so long as the better off are ok, it would appear nothing much else really matters to them.

And let’s call a halt to these coy notions that only bad, private education with be VATable. That a local retiree topping up pension by tutoring in Maths, or the Saturday school so kids with a foreign parent can learn to read and write in that second language, will be not be hit by VAT. Or that SEN education will not be hit by VAT. That only George and Clemmie’s education will be hit by VAT.

Plumbing is VATable. It doesn’t matter if you use a national chain or a small local man-with-a-van, it’s subject to 20% VAT. And it doesn’t matter if the plumbing is to fix your loo or give you potable water, or if you are installing a marble swimming pool - it’s all plumbing and all subject to 20% VAT.

If you want this, own it.

The NHS reforms where they will hire all those thousands of mental health professionals and doctors and dentists who are sitting on the dole today?

Where they’ll double the number of MRIs and CT scanners, and presumably hire all the radiologists who are also unable to find work at the moment?

Those reforms sound like about as much thought has gone into them at the VAT on education.

Talk about negativity!
Instead of carping, what would you do? just let the wealthy have decent healthcare and the rest can go without?

Bit like what is happening with education at the moment, only the wealthy or the lucky get a good schooling.

With a better educated workforce comes a whole raft of benefits, not least in the economy.

I want Labour to really campaign on improving education for all not just those with spare cash.

Then you need more funding…

And that won’t be from this policy

btw the pp isn’t ‘carping’ it’s just being economically aware

Please spare me the faux scolding about negativity.

Their NHS proposals might as well be expanded to cover transport (all freight shall be shipped cross country via carbon neutral unicorns ) and defence (we shall tell mean countries to be kind and educate themselves).

It’s just childish to say, “We’re going to hire tens of thousands of highly trained medical professionals” and omit the inconvenient fact that there aren’t tens of thousands of highly trained medical professionals available for hire.

They’ve had over a decade to work on this and it’s all fluff. It’s just not implementable. They clearly don’t think any of their core audience will ask for detail. It’s kind of insulting, really.

What people who use these services need to do is speak to the financial people who run the business and ask them what their plans are in the future, for various scenarios .
including the one where they lose all the tax advantages that charitable status can bring.

They’re businesses, they can’t afford to lose all their paying customers, or piss them off too much. So of course they’ll have plan A, B And C…

of course they are putting up fees now, by quite large % in many cases - which has fuck all to do with Labour or any of us whinging’jealous’ plebs who use normal schools.
Perhaps all this bleating about what Labour may or may not do is just a smokescreen to cover the fact fees are already stretching well out of reach of the middle
classes. Still, someone has to pay for all the ‘world class’ facilities I suppose.

Actually I believe there are some doctors 'hanging around'. The NHS excels in stupidity. I have two acquaintances - one oncologist and one heart surgeon who were effectively laid off during Covid because their respective hospitals only 'did Covid' cases. One of them became an airline pilot. What a waste.