20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

And dancing schools charge VAT on dance lessons, also swimming clubs, art classes/clubs, music lessons, etc.

Politics of envy.

The 20% will be applied, and absolutely nothing will change in state education. But that’s not really the point for half the posters here, they’ve hoping it will somehow bring down private education in general.

It won’t. It’s going to be needed more than ever, soon.

You can’t lump all private schools together when talking about this. Around half are not registered charities as things currently stand. They have different tax treatment. The VAT argument is totally separate from the charitable one.

I still can’t understand the logic in using the tax system to try to penalise the only part of the education system which seems to be functioning properly.

It's the Labour/Socialist politics of envy. They want everything and everyone down to the lowest level as they can't bare the thought of someone better better or getting better services!

Yes it could be smaller state class sizes and higher pp funding but no it’s this gimmick

Exactly. All it’s trying to achieve is dragging good schools down. It won’t benefit the state system at all. They can’t bear the thought that some children are getting a great education whilst the state is failing millions more.

Agreed.

Tax is not the default and it should never be allowed to take that position. The absence of tax on something is not a ‘tax break’. Tax is an imposition on private property and private transactions that needs to be properly justified.

I think part of it is that they realise that the problems in the state system run far deeper than a simple question of funding. They’re not prepared to tackle the real problems in schools. Instead, they think the easiest way to achieve equality is to drag the good ones down.

Not sure how making businesses pay the correct taxes and fees means we can’t/won’t improve our state schools.

I and many more people, are tired of the privately educated people in power - who put their own children in private schools-neglecting state schools, and pretending they give a damn about them.
They don’t, we know they don’t. It doesn’t affect them.

@Whazzabanger If they are constituted as charities they are not businesses. They are charities and your opinion is irrelevant. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2021-0138-judgment.pdf

I think the Supreme Court knows what it is doing. I don’t want a potential Government being able to interfere with the Supreme Court’s decision. That is far more problematic than what some private schools do, for all of us.

State schools are not all the same. My children have attended fantastic state schools. We are lucky. Should we also pay more tax now? We already pay a ton of tax and a really high marginal rate.

I don’t think this is about VAT on private schools anyway. I think the Labour Party hate the fact that people can die and leave money to their old private school free of inheritance tax AND they can gift aid cash to their old private school too. Why not enable a system where people can do the same for state schools if they want to. Let’s start with something positive not negative. Cambridge and Oxford uni are also private in that way benefitting from those types of donations.
Some people want to contribute to education. Let’s at least find a way that people can contribute voluntarily to state schools in an easy way that can benefit those schools directly.

Fact of the matter is nobody wants to contribute to the sinkhole Government coffers from them to waste it yet again. They are inefficient and we all know it.

‘IF Labour get in’

theyre getting in. Who the fuck would vote Tory this time around? Maybe an absolute masochist would, or someone wealthy enough not to use any public services of any kind.

It is illegal to levy such a tax in the EU. In fact no other country in the world does it. Are they all wrong?

How much do you think funding will increase due to superficial policies such as this?

It will raise very little if anything beyond extra state students

Are you expecting a lot? As you may find there’s not much in it

In the EU private is a much smaller part of overall education, usually international schools.

To me, its the principal, in the main, they are businesses and provide a luxury service (there is a state alternative) so why shouldn't they be taxed?

If private ed genuinely supported state pupils, then fair enough.

Do posters think private health cover provided by employers shouldn't taxed either? or the companies themselves?

“theyre getting in. Who the fuck would vote Tory this time around? Maybe an absolute masochist would, or someone wealthy enough not to use any public services of any kind.”

Yes I agree they will get in, in all likelihood. However, we can still demand proper thought through and costed policies. This policy has not been costed. It is just another whack on the privileged. I don’t believe it will raise money. I believe it will lead to actual losses. I think it will deter high achieving people coming to the UK when we need them more than ever and it will lead to more of our talented young leaving as well, at least those who have been privately educated as it feels like a bit of a witch hunt at the moment.

Secondly, everyone I know who works in the NHS does not think the problem is funding. They think the problem is inherent inefficiently within the system. There is so much incompetence and passing the buck in this country at the moment across so many sectors. Funding is only part of the issue. We are allow to question dodgy hate policies that do not stack up financially.
Who wants to live in a country where people are literally disincentivised from working harder or more hours either because of huge marginal tax rates, loss of benefits or loss of universal credit. None of it currently stacks up. The whole tax system and constant moral interference by Government is an utter inefficient nightmare.

Well as a lifelong Labour voter I'm not going to vote Labour!
The VAT policy is a divisive policy aimed at "us Vs them". It isn't coherent and if you think it will solve all the issues in state schools then you are naive.

Are you suggesting the UK is unique globally in terms of private schools? It’s remarkable that not a single other country levies tax on education if it apparently the right thing to do.

What happens if we rejoin the EU? Does Labour then have to admit the policy was inappropriate?

FWIW private healthcare attracts a tax benefit not a tax cost in countries such as Germany.

We aren't going to re-join the EU anytime soon & if we do, then vat on school fees will be the least of our obligations.

I really don't see the argument "No one else does it" few drive on the left hand side of the road either, does that make us wrong?

This country is in dire straights, state education is not great, funds have to be found and the majority of PS parents can easily afford VAT, where else does the money come from?

It will likely create zero revenue and could even cost the taxpayer money. It could well result in a reduction in the average spending per pupil in the state sector.

It’s a ridiculous policy that is economically illiterate but pushed to the forefront by Labour who want to fuel a class war to appeal to their voters.

Even if it raised the funds that Labour quote (it won’t) then it would be sufficient to cover about 2 days of the state education budget. Hardly transformational.

It’s a ridiculous policy that is economically illiterate but pushed to the forefront by Labour who want to fuel a class war to appeal to their voters.

This and the rest of your post. It’s depressing to see

Yes, the UK private system is much more extensive than in most EU countries.

As for the 'them and us comment' by twistyizzy- isn't it exactly why the private system is there for?

Rejoining the EU would make absolutely no difference.

I totally understand this is a matter of principle for Labour, and nothing to do with 'jealousy'. ALL children deserve a great education, not just those who can pay for it.

Everyone agrees with every child having a good education. What we are saying is that this policy won't make that happen.
It is Labour's magic money tree that will magically get 1000s of new teachers and fix the state education system. In reality though the optimistic figure is 1.5 billion pounds, that won't even pay for the RAAC let alone get new teachers or mental health support.

What it comes down to is pitting state parents against private parents and making private schools/kids suffer rather than trying to raise up the quality of state education.

I don't send DD private so she can become better than her state peers. I send her because we are fortunate enough to be able to afford it and the state options are dire. We are fortunate enough to be able to afford not to sacrifice her educational experience by sending her to the local sink secondary school.
Ultimately don't we all want the best for our kids?

‘I don't send DD private so she can become better than her state peers’

no, it’s not about becoming ‘better’ can’t make a purse out of a sows ear after all, but it is about buying grades, paying for privilege and that all important social networking.