20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

I think it’s bad economics more than anything and state users are still impacted if it proves to be detrimental generally

What are their other policies that you like?

I’m glad you think that me having to find an additional 50k is a “tiny issue”. I’d hate to discover what the big issues are that will impact me more.

“This is a tiny issue that will affect a tiny minority of people and which is being blown wholly out of proportion on this thread, primarily by libertarians who aren’t affected.”

OK I will bite. I enjoyed the 90s and New Labour. Like many MN I would like to think of myself as a left leaning centrist. But this policy and lack of rationality, it pushes me into the Lib Dem camp. And because I am middle aged, I will probably stay there long term. It does not matter whether it affects me personally, that is not how I vote. I vote for what I believe in.

The way I see it is the Tories are finished anyway but if Labour gets a massive majority there won’t be enough scrutiny on crazy far lefty ideals that do not stack up economically for the country and our poorest and most vulnerable. I don’t like the part of the far left that thinks they get to control what I think or just too much state control full stop.

I actually thought Lib Dem voters/metropolitan elite call it what you like are meant to be ex Tories. But many of us are centrist and ex New Labour type politics (minus the warmongering). We are anti Brexit, pro environmental long term, pro the young getting a chance, pro choice for the elderly, pro reasonable sharing across society to the point that there is no deterrent either way to not work more. Don’t believe in benefit bashing or ableism etc don’t believe in rich bashing either as they can be a good balance to the powers that be and dogma. I believe in working with other countries, our responsibility in the world due to colonialism. I believe in Education and despite disliking much of what Gove did I believe that having high expectations for all can sometimes be empowering.
Most of my friends educated well paid professionals teens in the 90s think just like me.
So which party do we vote for? Genuinely?

I’m sorry but in order to pay that £50k you are choosing to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on school fees. A choice you don’t have to make.

7% of children aged 4-18 in private school? This is simply not a massive issue to the vast majority of people in this country - most of whom don’t have children of school age and where they do have children, can only dream of having a spare £20k a year to spend on school fees.

Ah is this the every private school will shut and the state sector will be flooded with children argument?

It doesn’t stand up. Most people will suck up the increase. Schools that close will be those that are already under financial strain.

Some people won’t be able to pay more and will have to enter their children in the local state school. In many parts of the country there will be vacancies. Great news for the state school as income gets paid based on bums on seats and costs are based on the number of forms it has. Money in the door with minimal extra cost.

And this is the economic argument before people say but it’s sad when children have to leave schools. It is but fees are outstripping inflation, if it’s tight it’s only going to get trickier

You’re right that it’s a choice but that doesn’t take away from the impact.

The reality is if they make it too expensive I’ll not use private schools. I will also work less and pay significantly less tax because I won’t need the additional income and then I’ll use state schools at a cost to the tax payer.

How is that a benefit to anyone if I do that?

First line is your words alone.

It’s still a poor policy which won’t stack up and since Labour are promising increased spending from gimmicky low yield policies, which damage a sector, they won’t be able to deliver much at all.

Well you’ll have a better work / life balance for one thing.

The extra money schools may receive has still come from taxpayers. You talk as if it is free money off a money tree.

@Charlie2121 - would you be happier if the extra was tax deductible? Then they could keep their narrative of charging non doms and rich boarders going to expensive private schools? However, stop those paying a ton of PAYE/taxed on self employed income? Would you be happy to fill in a tax form to reclaim it?

Yes it will come from taxpayers (mostly! I’m sure there are many Non Doms) but if you’re spending £20k a year on school you are hugely fortunate and financially privileged.

No it’s pretty much the start of the thread before it moved rather radically on

Someone said every private school will shut?

Some will yes. Not all

This really isn’t a far left policy.

A far left policy would be to force all private schools to become state schools.

As for who to vote for? Anyone but the bin fire the Tories have become over the last 8? years seems the best plan. It’s only a pity they can hang for another year. If the government were a horse they’d have been shot by now

It’s a policy to paper over a lack of any extra funding and a gimmick to appease voters

Where that is on the left idk

That would suit me as my entire income is PAYE.

I’d be more than happy to declare it on my annual self assessment.

I think much of my frustration comes from believing that I’m not really the intended target. I have a very high income although that is a relatively recent thing. I’m not wealthy. Had I had my child at 32 instead of 42 I’d not have been able to consider private schools.

I’ll be paying fees using income that has been taxed at 45% + NI. I feel I more than pay my fair share as it is.

All depends where you live. Here 25%/ 1:4 children are privately educated and the local schools, especially in the nicer areas, are bursting at the seams. I expect there will be an impact. Maybe not an awful one for all. Less out of catchment places available might mean a better socioeconomic balance where new build residents in historically poorer areas don't get to choose to send their dc to school outwith the area

It's a big issue for the tiny amount of people who pay a majority of the tax in this country. We already pay 45% in tax on our income plus save the state the cost of educating our children. Just how much that tiny amount of people can be pushed before they decide this country isn't worth it remains to be seen but I'd say we are getting close to that tipping point.

Before Brexit both DH worked for British companies. Post neither of us do because investment in biotech has dried up in the U.K. We are fully remote and choose to live here because we've built a life here. Between us we hold 3 different passports. We certainly don't need to be here. Will it matter if one family buggers off? Of course not. But if you start to lose a majority of the tiny but very prolific people it will be a problem for the UK.

I assume it is a far left policy because the Labour Party have never done anything similar to private schools to such a detriment? At a time when their costs would have gone up and many in the parent group may be struggling anyway. So the intention is to deter people primarily and discourage people from choosing private education.
Personally, I feel sorry for the staff too. So I feel sorry for kids who may be moved when they are happy and teachers who may lose their jobs. Also judging by friends who work in private schools - it is a particular type of bubble and if it were not for that type of school, they would not have become teachers. There are far more men teaching in the private sector than the state sector. I don’t think that is a coincidence. So there is the fact that some people’s livelihoods will be affected.

I remember when Phil Collins used to threaten to leave in much this fashion!

I myself feel pretty angry about how the Tories have put taxes up on working people. The priority has to be raising thresholds.

The Labour Party’s policy in the 80s was to abolish private schools. That would have been rather more left wing.

It’s hardly a surprise the Labour Party want to deter people from choosing private schools is it? Tony Blair’s government abolished the Assisted Places scheme. This isn’t an aberration.

Do you have evidence for the assertion more men work in private schools in the private sector - education is overwhelming female, particularly at primary so this seems rather an odd thing to be the case?

41% of full-time teachers in independent schools are male

https://www.isc.co.uk/media/9316/isccensus_2023_final.pdf

Worth noting that the percentage educated privately rises to 20% by sixth form

Follow the money and you always find the men!

You don't have to. No one has to send their children to private school and indeed the vast majority or people don't have that choice available to them.

Presumably the work that you will not be doing will need to be done by someone else who will be paid for it instead of you?