Rainbows- hostile leader, doesn't answer emails, how to move forward?

[Duchess338]

Hi, DD (5 almost 6) has been in Rainbows for about a year a half now. We moved about 8 months ago so she's in a new troop. She loved it where we lived before and she was shy to start with at the new troop but seemed to really get into it after a couple of times. Lately she's been having a real panic about being left there. She had made a friend there but the friend moved up to Brownies so she's starting from scratch with friends there again (she doesn't go to school with any of the girls there) so its understandable that shes having some seperation anxiety (also her age too) but i'm struggling to get any support from the troop leader.
She's incredibly abrupt with me whenever I try to talk to her about anything and sort of shuts me down. I'm not rude with her, I understand she's busy running this massive group... she's less rude with DH funnily enough so maybe she just doesnt like women? Im not taking it personally but it's getting in the way of trying to ease DD back into Rainbows- we're on the verge of pulling her out altogether.
At her old troop they were waiting for months and months for new rainbow bags and badge books so by the time we moved house DD didn't have one. She was never offered them at the new troop. I even volunteered at the previous group and it was still never explained to me what a badge book even is. I feel DD could have gotten so many more badges by now if we knew about this (I know, I could have done more due diligence but I just assume that when you join a new club these things are explained to you). DD had completed her Fruit And Veg Badge at the old troop but was still waiting on the badge when we left. It isn't logged on her girlguiding profile and the previous leader was very poorly so I feel bad to text her about a badge when shes going through something so serious, but this means DD will have to do it again.
She joined new troop 8 months ago and still wearing her old troops stripe (different town, different county!).
There are so many things happening that I could do with clarification on but our troop leader here doesn't answer any emails and when I talk to her face to face she's abrupt and defensive. DD was so distressed for a couple of sessions that I sat in on the next one and noticed the girls don't do much in the way of bonding, very much heads down individiual activities. Even then I wasn't able to get through to the leader. It felt very much like she was blaming me- "Well you didn't do such and such" and "She fine when she's here" and the rest of it. Im not blaming anyone but feel if im leaving DD with someone I should be able to have a basic conversation with them to map out a way forward that works for everyone.
Ideally im thinking DD could take a week off, work towards some badge stuff at home and then have an achievement to go back to, to get her excited about it again? But I have no idea how to do that because we don't have a badge book and can't get any response from the leader :/
It feels a real shame to just quit a club that she's loved so much in the past.
Thanks for any insights! x

If you want to continue buy the badge book from GirlGuiding website. It doesn’t sound like DD is happy though - maybe pull her out and try Brownies later when she’s a bit older and you likely have more choice of groups?

https://www.girlguidingshop.co.uk/products/rainbows/resources/my-badge-book-rainbows--6221/?gclid=CjwKCAjw7oeqBhBwEiwALyHLM3QB5_oDQQdpC19umhl6yQvIuEa9Ozol5i3VQw_6HznwCSBHzIkKAxoC1j8QAvD_BwE

If it's not working you could move her to Beavers - I would ask her classmates parents which one their children go to. But I would also moderate your expectations in terms of badges etc. Just let that go, and make it about fun - if she gets some badges great, but it should be lighthearted at her age.

If it's a massive group, there must be more than one permanent leader. Have you tried approaching another one? The main Leader will be incredibly busy at the start and end of meetings, and probably desperate to get home at the end too.

There are so many things happening that I could do with clarification on but our troop leader here doesn't answer any emails and when I talk to her face to face she's abrupt and defensive. DD was so distressed for a couple of sessions that I sat in on the next one and noticed the girls don't do much in the way of bonding, very much heads down individiual activities. Even then I wasn't able to get through to the leader. It felt very much like she was blaming me- "Well you didn't do such and such" and "She fine when she's here" and the rest of it.

You sat in on one meeting - doesn't mean that all meetings will be the same.

The 'even tehn I wasn't able to get through to the Leader' comment sounds as though you may be approaching her quite aggressively! What are you trying to get across?

How old is she?

i wonder whether one option would be to move her to brownies at Christmas? She might settle better if she knows that she’s only got a few weeks left.

Another option would be to volunteer. That would give you more say on how things run, and perhaps give less stress for the leader.

My daughter has been up through beavers and cubs and really enjoyed them, so that’s a third option.

Is there a different rainbow group which has some of her classmates from school in?

I agree with a pp that you should completely let the badges thing go. It’s just meant as a framework for activities- just letting her have fun even if she never gets a badge will be better for her development than trying to tick off all of the badges..

Rainbow leader here -

Definitely buy your own badge book online. Work through the badges at home and then present the evidence to the leader (either by showing photos of what your DD has done, or she can make a picture or a poster etc - this is all explained in the book). You need to make sure you only do the round badges, not the hexagon shaped ones. You dont need to repeat the Fruit and Veg badge - just tell the leader what you've told us and say you would your daughter to receive her badge.

Secondly, it is a requirement under Girlguiding ratios that there should be two adults present min for every rainbow meeting. Is there an assistant leader? I would reach out to her. Perhaps she might have more time to chat about some of these issues if you think the main leader is very busy.

If you still have no luck, you have a couple of options. You could either try and move your daughter to another rainbow group (if you have some in your area). This doesnt always help though as it requires another settling in period. You could contact the District Commissioner - this is a volunteer who sits above the individual units and can be used to escalate these sorts of issues etc. They can help you make some progress with the unit leader. Or you could take a break from rainbows and go back into brownies when your DD is 7 (just make sure to get her on a brownie waiting list so she doesnt lose her place). In my 10years of being a leader, sometimes there are some girls who dont settle at rainbows but absolutely thrive at brownies.

Its also important to remember that the leaders are volunteers and none of us know what is happening in that individual's personal life. But i certainly think that there are some steps that might be able to help with the situation as it is now.

I think emailing is the wrong approach. Talk to the leader at the end of a session (not the start when they are trying to settle a load of kids).
Might be worth asking do they need extra help.

I'd suspect the second Rainbows assumed she'd had all the pack and tbf we paid an initial joining fee, which I would guess was to cover the cost of the welcome pack. If they'd moved group, I wouldn't have expected to pay a joining fee again, but nor would I have expected a second pack. So I don't thin this is necessarily a sign of anything about the group.

When my dc were in Rainbows they did very few badges, and what they did was done as a pack. It didn't stop their enjoyment, so I think you're perhaps focusing on the wrong thing.

If she's not enjoying it, then take her out. Look for something she can enjoy rather than focusing on one thing she isn't.

Why don't you offer to help at the group. You could support by doing admin which will solve these issues for your dd and other children.

@Sherrystrull and others, I've considered volunteering with them but im having a difficult time getting psyched up about spending time with the leader in question. I know that's selfish- I loved volunteering at the previous group. I've still got my name badge and everything... the way she talks to me makes me feel like I'm back at school 😔

Hi @MargaretThursday and others with the suggestion of not focusing on badge progression...
Don't get me wrong, I'm super relaxed about the badge thing. I'm just trying to think of ways to make her feel she's getting something out of it. No pressure though!
I brought up with them during enrolment and the first couple of sessions, follow up emails, when I sat in about badge book and bag etc- she either gives vague short email replies or no response. In person she hardly let's me finish a sentence before getting what I can only describe as "shirty". I'm not being aggressive with her at all, just gently trying to have a conversation with her but its like talking to a brick wall.

You sound like you mean well but you're probably driving this leader crazy with all your attempts to talk to her about your very special and unique and different child. And your DD is probably picking up on your nervous energy about the whole thing and it's feeding into her issues. I think your personality and the leader's personality are just clashing and that it's not going to improve because she clearly doesn't want to get bogged down in long conversations with you about your child.
I think you should just pull her out and find a Squirrels group she can join for a fresh start and maybe cool it with the helicoptering like sitting in on sessions.

You are the total opposite of “super relaxed” sorry.

She’s a volunteer. Volunteer yourself if you think you can make a better fist of it.

@GuidingSpirit thanks so much for your comment. In all these months chasing the leader this is just what I was looking for!
I considered moving her to the other troop but the waiting list for both our locals are 30 deep and like you say its another settling in period.
Thats great to know that the book explains it. I'll get on there and order one (cripes, as if she couldn't have just told me that! Anyway...)
I told her about the Fruit and Veg Badge but only got back from her that she needs proof otherwise tough luck basically.

This! The time and effort put into running Rainbows/Brownies/Guides etc is a lot. If you’re not happy find another troop who’ll answer your tedious emails.

@SisterMichaelsHabit sorry but if you lead a kids group surely its part of the role to answer a few questions from parents about the club? And to be aware if a child has some additional needs? I don't think my child is any more important than anybody else's. If any of the other little girls were suddenly hit with an out of character episode of separation anxiety I would expect any decent parent to make whatever adult they were in the care of aware- school, clubs, nursery etc. And then I'd expect the person to acknowledge it or at least say "okay we'll keep an eye" not just bark some blame at the parent lol. Wouldn't you?

@LittleRobinRedBreast2023 nobody is taking the efforts of troop leaders for granted. If you don't like dealing with parents perhaps don't run a kids group?
And ill add to that that yes I have been super relaxed on badges, the aim with putting her in rainbows wasn't badges it was making girl friends. I only asked myself in the last one week whether working towards badges might help her feel excited about it.
It sounds like there might be a toxic side to the GG leadership if that's how you feel about parents concerns and them wanting their children to enjoy your groups.

Sorry but you sound quite bonkers. I cannot imagine giving this much headspace to flipping rainbows? Your kid goes along runs round a hall and maybe does some colouring or something. If they don’t enjoy you bin it. Attitude to the leader is abject gratefulness. Why are you even emailing the poor woman? No wonder she’s pissed off with you. Can’t really remember whether mine even did badges.

Your daughter's not enjoying it and you really dislike the leader, I would take her out of the group.
Either go on a waiting list for Brownies or move to Beavers.

Imagine if all the parents required this level of input! Dear me.

My eldest did Rainbows and got zilch from it, they topped Rich tea biscuits with icing and strawberry laces and ate crap. The leaders were control freaks. Brownies was much better!

I don’t run groups… but you knock yourself out slating any volunteer that does!

There is absolutely no toxic side, however you did post in education. You simply cannot expect volunteers to be at your beck and call answering your emails regarding your child.

@jesshomeEd I think I'm going to look into Beavers after some of these comments from leaders. Some quite toxic attitudes towards parents within the leadership which is a bit concerning, seeing as I just want DD to enjoy her Wednesday afternoons lol!

@LittleRobinRedBreast2023 see my previous comment to you. Nobody is slating leaders or taking their efforts for granted. I loved volunteering at the previous group and see/appreciate the effort.
I don't expect anyone to be at my beck and call, just clarification on a simple thing.

@TheaBrandt imagine if all parents just dropped their children with strangers for an hour a week and didn't ask any questions or wonder why their child begged in tears not to go suddenly.