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Original poster

North London state primaries and tutoring. Why?

45 replies

Nlss · 10/10/2023 10:08

Has anyone else noticed this? A lot of children in north London state primaries - the ones with the wealthier catchments - are being tutored from year 2/3?

Why is this necessary? And does this mean that teachers know - in these schools - that some gaps will be filled externally?

I have a DC who is struggling to keep up with maths this term, which had always been a favourite subject before. Apparently some children are doing secondary level maths at home. And apparently - says DC - most kids are tutored.

Wondered if anyone has any opinion / can shed some light on it all?

OP posts:
Marisquita · 10/10/2023 10:18

Often it’s to keep pace with independent schools so that they can apply for entry at 7+ or 11+.

twistyizzy · 10/10/2023 10:23

As PP has said, to prepare them for entrance exams in Yr 6 for either private or grammar schools. The school then reaps the rewards as their progress and SATS scores get artificially inflated and they attract even more pushy parents and so the cycle continues.
This is why I have to laugh when some parents are vehemently against private schools but then are fine with kids being tutored through the state system.

SeulementUneFois · 10/10/2023 10:33

Are a lot of the parents foreign, especially relatively well off ones? (E.g. Asian or from Europe, with professional jobs.)

I'm in that category and I found that the level of maths is lower for a given school stage than in my home country.

(I.e. I found that I would have done some of what's classified here as secondary level maths in primary, and some of what I would have done at home in the last years of secondary would not be covered in the school curriculum here at all, so only if one took more maths courses in university.)

Original poster
Nlss · 10/10/2023 10:42

The funny thing is about DC’s primary school is, the parents talk enthusiastically about the local state secondary that they moved to the area for!

I know some will go onto the 11+ track, but I can’t understand why the others are being tutored?

I feel similarly about people who get angry about private schools existing, yet tutor and choose grammars. Morally, it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. (Except cheaper.)

OP posts:
endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2023 10:44

Many of the secondary schools on N London are highly selective and parents tutor from about year 3 to get places. It is ridiculous, but self perpetuating.

BBno4 · 10/10/2023 10:45

It does make you wonder if the school is actually doing enough

endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2023 10:47

These are state schools, not private. It is a terrible system IMO and very unfair.

anonymousxoxo · 10/10/2023 10:48

These are the parents who value education and their children will reap the rewards of their hard work when they're graduated and earning a very high salary. These are the future doctors, dentists, pharmacists, lawyers and investment bankers. I plan on giving my children tuition from an early age to prevent stress of not earning enough which is a life of struggle.

endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2023 10:48

BBno4 · 10/10/2023 10:45

It does make you wonder if the school is actually doing enough

I think they do their best under difficult circumstances. It isn't enough though.

anonymousxoxo · 10/10/2023 10:49

BBno4 · 10/10/2023 10:45

It does make you wonder if the school is actually doing enough

They're not because for 1) ratio is ridiculous. 1 teacher to 30 pupils and salary being low. Ambitious and smart people (for high salaries) don't go into teaching. That's not to say smart people aren't in teaching, it's that teaching is known for being poorly paid in comparison to investment banker.

Catmuffin · 10/10/2023 10:51

Dd1 is at university and I briefly joined a parent group for the uni that popped up. I was surprised some people still arrange tutors for their kids at university. I had no idea!

MrsSkylerWhite · 10/10/2023 10:52

Because it’s the parents’ prerogative if that’s what they choose?

endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2023 10:54

The thing is, once you start tutoring it is hard to stop, if the child can't manage without.

HighRopes · 10/10/2023 10:54

Its a vicious circle. People tutor because others do it and they fear their child getting left behind, or losing confidence in the way the OP describes.

Personally (two DC from state primary to selective independent secondary) I chose to broaden with music, sport, drama etc to supplement primary school, rather than tutoring to get ahead academically. Then home prep for 11+ from end of Y5.

But I do understand the huge pressure parents feel, in certain social groups, to tutor from an early age.

Catmuffin · 10/10/2023 10:54

Catmuffin · 10/10/2023 10:51

Dd1 is at university and I briefly joined a parent group for the uni that popped up. I was surprised some people still arrange tutors for their kids at university. I had no idea!

Just to add. I suppose if someone has always been tutored they might struggle at uni without this.

Araminta1003 · 10/10/2023 11:01

There was quite a lot of tutoring in DC’s primary too. Not just for grammars (and a couple to private each year) but also to stay ahead and get into top set comp. Lots of comps have “grammar streams/top sets” too - it is to stay away from disruption/disengagement in lower sets etc.

You do not need to tutor but why not invest 10 minutes a day doing a bit of Maths online and reading with your DC. For an intelligent child that is all that is required to stay on top of it all. If your child is telling he wants some help, there are lots of free resources available.

We also experienced being pushed to do stuff at home by our primary teachers. Because they want to see progress in the kids, even the high attainment kids. And they don’t have time with 32 in a class so they encouraged help from those parents willing to do it.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 10/10/2023 12:07

We tutored a bit in primary.

DD was in a class with a very high percentage of highly disruptive children. She has SEN - but being well behaved meant she was never a priority for the help she desperately needed. School just said they had 9 children in the class who were higher need.

Tutoring was basically to give her quiet space to actually understand what she should have been able to learn at school. Then covid hit and that was the end of both. Happily secondary has been completely different.

endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2023 12:12

There was so much noise and disruption in my DC's primary school, it was very difficult for the quiet, well behaved kids to get any attention at all. That was nearly 20 years ago and I imagine it is a lot worse now. I can understand why parents that can do it would try everything to get their kids into a good secondary school.
My niece was a primary school teacher and has just had a complete breakdown and walked away. She said the children were just absolutely feral. Parents no better.

AmeliaEarhart · 10/10/2023 12:27

My DD is in y6 and has had a tutor since y4. Nothing to do with 11+, just that we recognised there were significant gaps in her learning from Covid which school don’t have the time and resources to address, and that as an academically average, cheerful, well-behaved child she gets overlooked in the classroom where her teachers tend to focus on the high flyers and the strugglers. DH and I both work full time and we also have a child SEN who needs significant support, so I’m happy to send DD off for her 45 minute weekly session with her tutor (who is a former KS2 teacher) where she can have some 1-to-1 attention, play with her tutor’s dog (her favourite bit) and get some help from someone who is far better qualified than I am!

Guysfi · 10/10/2023 16:01

I wonder if you tutor in primary is it just for maths and English or also the other subjects? DC go to a very nice primary school in south London and whilst I dont think that kids are tutored in yr1, parents definitely put a lot of effort into getting them ahead in those two subjects.

anonymousxoxo · 10/10/2023 17:34

It’s mainly English, maths and science.

MotherofPearl · 10/10/2023 18:41

I have used a tutor for my DC and still do for my youngest.

Tbh, the ways things are now in state schools, I increasingly feel that a tutor is a necessity rather than a luxury - though of course I fully appreciate that it is not an option some can afford. Schools and teachers can't help it - they are so stretched and poorly resourced, not to mention badly paid - but I really feel like the system is broken.

I feel like the tutor helps to paper over some of the cracks for my DC when they've had a run of substitute teachers, for example.

MogdenSewage · 10/10/2023 21:56

I guess Tutoring is not subject to the private school VAT to be implemented.

Gribbit987 · 10/10/2023 22:28

I’m in north London. I had a tutor throughout primary as the pace was slow and I was bored. My kids have tutors for the same reason.

I went to “outstanding” state schools. My children do too. Some of the teachers are illiterate. The quality of teaching is often appalling. I have chosen state education for social and ideological reasons. But I always expected to hire tutors as well.

I didn’t have tutors at uni. Don’t know anyone who did - some had mentors.

RedHelenB · 10/10/2023 22:37

None of mine had tutors. And I think the schools they went to would be the ones mumsnet would be desperate to avoid. And they got good exam results
The only need for tutors is if a child is struggling and needs that bit of one to one for their confidence.