VAT on private school fees

[user1486984759]

So I’m going to get crucified for this, BUT, let me get this straight:

• We pay 45% tax, thereby funding state schools
• We do not get any benefits, and those that do get priority when it comes to state school admissions
• We scrimp and save from what’s left after paying 45% tax to pay for our kids’ education
• And now the state is going to add 20% to our school fees to fund state schools
• So we pay the most to fund state schools, but when it comes to state school admissions, we are last in line

How is this fair?

It seems that in this country, the best places to be are (1) a non-dom billionaire, or (2) someone who doesn’t pay taxes, gets all the benefits, and gets priority in state school admissions. The hard working PAYE earners are screwed by parties from left, right and center.

It's already happening, I assume due to increased costs. DD, at an excellent state secondary, has 27 pupils in her class. DD's friend of the same age, at a well-regarded local private school costing around £21,000 pa, now has 24 pupils in her class. The friend's parents aren't particularly impressed but they won't move their child because she is settled and happy (and it is still a good school). I think a fair few parents would prefer larger classes over unaffordable fees.

The point of this policy isn’t to improve state schools because any net positive for treasury, even if you take the most optimistic labour forecasts, is a drop in the ocean of school budgets. The real objective is to cut down tall poppies - how dare anyone have something better than the meagre state ration.

@Dibblydoodahdah yes, part of it has been dropped because they didn’t think this through. Or thought they will announce anything to gullible voters like you.

Ah right, I didn't know that was a factor to be honest. I have recently applied for a primary school place, and the only exceptions were children with an EHCP/SEN or what they referred to as a 'looked after child' which would be adopted children or children in foster care.

I think there is an equal argument for and against this, but I feel the only people that will suffer again are those squeezed middle - granted the top end of the squeezed middle, but still.

I'd be much more in favour of some sort of asset tax on those who have multiple properties, or tighter controls around offshore bank accounts and ultra wealthy people using tax loopholes to avoid paying what they should.

The policy is NOT dropped. They still plan to change the rules re VAT. They've just said they won't challenge the charitable status of private schools.

Benefit claimants do not get priority in state school admissions.

I think it's a good policy and hope they implement it quickly. If you choose to send your kids private that is your business but I don't see why you shouldn't pay VAT on top of the fees. I'm for any policy that will do anything to improve funding for public services and serve as a disincentive to people using the private school system.

I live in an area where there are no private schools nearby, and a lot of affluent families due to a microcosm of an economy thanks to a very specific industry. Our local secondary school is very good, in part because families are "invested" in the school. They make donations, some significant, and give up their time and expertise to offer extra curricular activities.

It's an example of how removing private education could actually benefit all pupils as a whole.

Perhaps you should have read my post more closely @SisterMichaelsHabit 😂😂I said I think education should remain VAT free.

I stand by my 10% guesstimate by the way, as it’s based on a reasonable sample size of people I know, including head teachers. But, unlike you, I am open to other data points so please do feel free to explain them

And I think most would agree that if we limit posting (since when did you become the posting police?) to topics on which we had first hand experience the number of posts on the site would fall dramatically 😂

No it hasn’t VAT has nothing to do with charitable status . The two issues are completely unrelated. Think of all the charities that charge VAT on their sales .

VAT is not charged by schools because education is an exempt supply regardless of who supplies it.

Why are you saying that I am a gullible voter?! Have I said on this thread that I support the policy. No I have absolutely not. I have never voted Labour in my life and I have no intention of doing so now.

@Mulhollandmagoo exactly. Inheritance tax for Prince Charles is a no-go because the flag shaggers love the monarchy

OP did you go to private school?

@arcadiamadia No, I did not because my parents could not afford to

Non fee paying Grammar schools certainly do give priority to children in receipt of fsm.

The ridiculous thing is due to fsm transitional protection there are many that wouldn't actually qualify for fsm under income criteria but are still receiving fsm so receive all the priorities that really they shouldn't be getting.

So they have dropped the charitable status change but will still apply the 20% vat because they can do that if they are in charge.

They are going to ensure that private schools are forced to pay business rates even if they keep their charitable status ( watch out other charities, you next).

And a load of other stuff they might do.

So in summary, someone somewhere has pointed out the holes in this policy and they have backpedaled before it's thrown at them during election campaigning. Someone somewhere has now been tasked with looking at all other challenges/problems to this policy before campaigning and the inevitable U turn.

Shows actually how this 'big' policy proves Labour are not fit to run the country.

So you are happy to pay 20% VAT on your kids' extracurriculars such as swimming, music, holiday clubs, ...?

Because comparing a city state with the world's highest per capita gdp to the U.K. is like complaining that the caviar in Aldi is a bit shit compared to one sold at Fortnum & Mason.

The greatest trick of the global elite. Is convincing the lower middle + working class population that the real problem is the upper middle class.

let’s all salivate with rage about the lawyer busting her gut 70hrs a week to pay 50% tax into a system that won’t stop banging on about how unfair her salary is.

while bezos / big tech companies / the royal family sip their champagne unchallenged behind the smoke screen of anger they’ve whipped up.

Tax is the best way we have of redistributing wealth. But if y’all keep hacking away at the economic engine room of a country, you’re going to have less economy to share.

@Lesina a lot of our local primary schools prioritise children in receipt of the pupil premium in entrance above other criteria. When we were looking at state schools this worked in our favour as our children receive the service pupil premium but I believe some pupil premium is based on income.

Yes. Because you’d be paying VAT on your purchases.

Doh.

FGS they’re not convincing anyone that the middle class is “the problem” by asking those on over £100k a year to contribute a bit more on a luxury expense.

That is nothing compared to the shit they are pulling with the disabled languishing in poverty right now. Or the huge increase in child poverty due to the two child benefit cap.

Labour has dropped plans to end charitable status for private schools but says it will still remove other tax breaks if it wins the next general election.

VAT exemptions and charitable status are different things.

But it’s easier to go after those who are diligently contributing a significant share already than the companies and gazillionaires who hide it away.

I totally agree that the uptick in child poverty is unacceptable. But I feel angry that big companies who benefit from operating in a stable, policed + managed economy get away without paying their dues. Oil and gas companies effectively got an 11.4 bn gbp tax credit on their ‘windfall’ profits last year.

probably a fairer target than squeezing the NHS surgeon / head teacher / moderately wealthy middle class

it’s not a hill I’m going to die on. It won’t make any difference at all to my educational choices.

I teach in a private school and have 2 kids in private school and even I agree there should be VAT paid. (I can't afford it, and for my sake hope it doesn't happen, but I do agree that it should).

Education is exempt from VAT. This includes private school fees, music lessons, swimming lessons, private day nurseries and preschools (almost all of them are private even the ones attached to state primary schools), tutors and university fees. Are you happy for VAT to be added to all of those services?

There are no plans to introduce VAT on anything other than private school fees.

Private SEN provision can also be exempted.

They are going to ensure that private schools are forced to pay business rates even if they keep their charitable status ( watch out other charities, you next).

Already enacted in Scotland.

And there you have it. Labour have dropped the charitable status pledge, claiming it was just 'shorthand' for removing tax breaks. In other words, we've written this plan on the back of an envelope and we don't understand the issues or have a clue how to implement it or what the implications might be.