VAT on private school fees

[user1486984759]

So I’m going to get crucified for this, BUT, let me get this straight:

• We pay 45% tax, thereby funding state schools
• We do not get any benefits, and those that do get priority when it comes to state school admissions
• We scrimp and save from what’s left after paying 45% tax to pay for our kids’ education
• And now the state is going to add 20% to our school fees to fund state schools
• So we pay the most to fund state schools, but when it comes to state school admissions, we are last in line

How is this fair?

It seems that in this country, the best places to be are (1) a non-dom billionaire, or (2) someone who doesn’t pay taxes, gets all the benefits, and gets priority in state school admissions. The hard working PAYE earners are screwed by parties from left, right and center.

Someone on twitter has done some hypothetical maths on this. If 10% of privately educated students joined the state sector, the VAT paid by the parents of the rest would hugely outweigh the cost. There would be a massive income stream for funding new places. Something we didn't have when we managed to accommodate Ukrainian refugees at no notice.

This old chestnut. A small percentage of children go to private schools, and of those a small percentage will choose not to pay the extra few thousand. I’m sure the state system will cope.

The proposed VAT on fees is just a petty policy. It’s back of a fag packet maths.

ALL schools pay business rates. State and private. If the VAT policy was really about improving education and levelling up, it would actually be about ditching business rates for state (if not all) schools. It is criminal that they pay business rates.

The VAT of fees is not about pupils, it’s not about all the staff that work in the schools or the local businesses that rely on them - it’s about Eton producing Tory PMs. It’s just petty.

If only 8% of children are privately educated it’s hardly going to be an influx, surely? Because I reckon no more than 10% of those parents will actually move their children - so that’s less than a 1% increase in the number of children going to state schools.

I have no strong views on public schools, and think education probably should be VAT free. I would much rather that what are fundamentally commercial organisations didn’t pass themselves off as charities though. That should be stopped…plenty of other businesses support local communities because it’s the right thing to do, not to exploit a tax break.

And while I’m at it, as I haven’t had children, can I have some of my 45% tax back as well please?

I will still pay the 20% VAT extra for private school, I'm not sure how we will afford it but it's worth every penny.

I'm going to get crucified too, but I agree with you OP.

If loads of people are priced out of private schools:
a) Those state schools will have to take in thousands of children, straining their already strained resources, with no extra tax being generated to pay for the extra schools, teachers etc they will need the state to provide.

b) With far fewer pupils, many private schools will have to close. Those private school teachers will NOT return to state schools, they will go abroad to countries that actually pay them and have parents that actually parent their kids well enough to make them behave in the classroom.

Net loss for everyone. It won't raise the money Labour think it will, and as DH is a private school teacher this is a single issue I cannot vote Labour because of, despite how much I want their brilliant care profession ideas to come to fruition.

State school priority.

1. SEN do you have a child who has SEN where there is no space in special schools so a 1:1 must be hired to help said child achieve their potential. You don't? Lucky you

1. Siblings

1. Staff

1. Catchment area.

So actually if you can afford private school fees, you probably live in a more well to do area. So already you have a better option.

Paying more taxes does not mean you should have priority on state schools. What a ridiculous thing.

We also pay lots of income tax, but choose to send our children to state schools.

If we choose to spend our money on things, including things that benefit our children's education, we expect to pay VAT as well.

I am not against private education if parents wish to pay for it, but see no reason why it should be VAT exempt.

So you would be in favour of VAT on private health care or private care homes?

A "free" version of both exists so granny's hip replacement or Johnny's ADHD assessment should have 20% slapped on top.

After all the extra money could help reduce waiting lists by a nano second.

Also, it is your choice to send privately.
My parent died aged 58 and had to pay for their own care. And then taxed on inheritance. Plus they paid taxes all their life. They were too young to claim state pension.

It's life. It is what it is. Worse things to moan about if I'm honest

Who said the aim is to improve social mobility? Labour is not proposing getting rid of private schools. The money will be reinvested in state schools, which as you point out, need it.

I spent the majority of my life in Singapore which has both a private and a state system. People vie for places in the state system because it is FAR better. And somehow Singapore is able to fund its state education system with 22% highest income tax bracket.

The underlying issue here is the inability of UK government (regardless of which party is in power) to manage its finances and squeeze taxpayers every chance they get.

Perhaps if more people in the UK were privately educated, they would see through these shortsighted, populist moves by a failing politician (Starmer) that has to resort to such measures even when the bar has been set so low by the likes of May/Johnson/Sunak

Again I can’t agree more. You are spot on.

@Justbetweenus what gives you the confidence that the money will be reinvested in state schools? Same people who told you that there will be additional £300 million to fund NHS?

Schools that are charities get business rates relief of about 80%. But both the conservative and labour government are going to remove business rates relief. Its about 0.7 billion that will be raised when this is removed.

I went to a state school.

I'm in the top 1% of earners so spare me the thought that us state educated are all sweeping the office floors and making the tea for our privately educated bosses.

As for the VAT, I actually agree that increasing the prices will just make private schools even more elitist and remove opportunities for children who may have received bursaries, which would be a shame.

OTOH, I can't see how they can justify the charity status.

Honestly, given how broken everything is, they can put it towards fixing any public service and I’m here for it. It’s not much but it’s something.

1% of 14,000,000 is rather a lot, actually.

On your laughably low 10% estimate of the number of children who will be forced out of schools, an additional 140,000 children will need to be accommodated by the state sector.

Based on the size of the average school, that's a few hundred schools that will need building (or buying), staffing etc from the public purse, and the same amount of private schools that will be forced to close.

140,000 children ripped away from their friends and familiar world to make a political point.

Thousands of teachers unemployed because Labour are closing their mines.

I'd say that's likely to be a best case scenario.

Sadly there's no point even trying to reason with you as you're too in love with your own rhetoric, like most other posters on this thread and other threads where private schools are mentioned on this "conservative" MN. I don't think you should have an opinion on where people send their children to school if you don't have kids yourself, tbh. It's not like it affects you in the slightest.

Surely there will just be a much higher bar for charitable status? So those schools that really are doing a lot of good work, providing a number of fully paid bursaries to very smart but disadvantaged students and outreach programs, are permitted to maintain their charitable status.

Let’s play along. There are 24,000+ schools in the UK according to a quick google. I think they’ll accommodate the additional 6 children. What’s that - one per year group?

I’m still stuck as to what those who say this policy is a good idea want me to do.

VAT on school fees - they say it’s a great idea, you have the option of coming to the state sector so don’t whinge about it. Fair enough.
I say I will have to move my kids to the state sector at natural exit point (for my lot beginning of A levels ) - you can’t do that it’s unfair, instead you should pay fees you can no longer afford.

i didn’t plan this. If we can’t afford post GCSEs (which looks v likely at moment) we’ll move to state then. I have zero idea of whether it will impact upon uni selection and frankly, as I won’t have any other options then, it won’t affect my decision.

I suspect this is the bollocks that the private schools are spreading suggesting that it is easier to get into uni if you are from a state school.

Just popping in to say that people need to stop using Finland as an example. Their population is 5.5 million ours is 67 million. Their population makeup and diversity is also very different to ours. Managing things like healthcare and education is easier with a smaller population, It's easier to enact change quicker.

It's good to know that the Labour Party is confident state schools can accommodate the pupils that will inevitably move from private to state as well as all the outreach that private schools will surely stop now they are no longer required to provide it.

I honestly think there will be so many unintended consequences because of this and many will be negative.

The private sector is around 542,000 to 615,000 pupils.

You're assuming that the displaced DC are evenly distributed round the country and evenly distributed by age.

Whereas it's a much smaller proportion of primary age pupils (where the demographics mean there is likely to be less pressure on places) but 20% of the (smaller) Sixth Form cohort - who would be much harder to find places for but who need them with considerable immediacy