Primary school admissions - 14 miles apart

[Ruralparents]

Hi all

I thought I’d join to mine your collective wisdom!

We live in rural Cambridgeshire, 6 miles from our nearest school in one direction and 8 miles from the next nearest in another.

Back in the depths of lockdown we had to a choose a school for our eldest to start at in Sept 2021. My wife teaches at the school 8 miles away and so we chose it because it would be handier. We didn’t know if our eldest would get in there but she did. And it turns out that her catchment school, 6 miles away, was oversubscribed.

Now, in 2023 our daughters school is over subscribed and our youngest has been placed at the catchment school. These two school are 14 miles apart! We lost our appeal and have now got the prospect of trying to manage a 28 mile school run, twice a day.

Cambridgeshire council don’t care, they are hiding behind their protocols and passing the buck.

We asked if our eldest could move schools to be with our youngest and they’ve refused because her year group at the catchment school is oversubscribed.

Out of catchment siblings get the same priority as in catchment siblings in Suffolk and Norfolk, but not Cambridgeshire. And when you live 6 and 8 miles from the two schools it’s fairly obvious you’re going to be at the bottom of the admissions list when either school is over subscribed.

Has anyone had any joy appealing on the grounds of unreasonable journey times etc? I just don’t think anyone should be made to do over 10000 miles a year on the school run. School transport hasn’t been offered but even if we can get it, someone still has to be available to put a 4 year old in a taxi and to collect them etc, it doesn’t help the logistics.

There is an ombudsman, but I think they have just rigged the whole system in order to do as they please and screw those who live out in the sticks.

As DC1 isn’t at catchment by choice, my LA would not grant transport. You might be able to blag a space on a bus by paying if there’s a space. We grant transport to out of catchment only if LA has directed DC there as catchment is full from DC higher up the priority list. So would the bus even go from near the farm? It’s not in catchment.

If you are going school transport - then eldest could go with mum three days and she could do youngest the other days? Half a week each?

You could also do two afternoons one child each day.

Would that work?

That's where they need to put it back to the LA.
LA your DC1 isn't in the catchment school so we aren't doing transport.
Op well get her a space in catchment school.
LA we can't do that either.
Op well give us transport to out of catchment school

Really they can't say no to both.

@TizerorFizz thats fair enough as an initial stance unless the child has an ehcp. But at this point, if there is no space at the catchment school to move the dc to a ‘nearer school’ then the out of catchment is functionally the ‘nearest suitable school’.

If you are right about transport and we got it for eldest. If a place became available at the catchment school, next year maybe when the ICS limit is lifted, they could then withdraw transport to her current school on the basis that eldest could be moved to the catchment school?

These are good questions to ask of them, but I’m afraid my experience is, they write the rules, the appeals panel follows their rules, and they are judge, jury and executioner.

The only question would be whether national legislation on transport for infant children would override the LA?

Of course national legislation overrides the LA.

It could, but the liklihood of transport is slim.

I think we know how we’re going to manage it for the first half term and we’ll see how it goes. If it proves to be unmanageable then my wife can look for new job options from Christmas, and we’ll formulate a plan B or C or Q or whatever it is by then.

Maybe in a few years time when our farm tenancy renews, we should give it up, find the best secondary school we can and buy a house next door and then I can go and get a real job! 😂

The LA did not choose the school. The OP did. The LA has no obligation whatsoever to find the DC a place at the catchment school. The DC can go on a waiting list. Therefore if the policy is similar to ours they do not get transport to a school they chose nor do they skip the waiting list and get fast tracked into the catchment school. Many heads do keep classes to 30 and resist extra Dc when dc has a school place already that was preferred by the parents and the catchment school was never applied for. So the LA does get it both ways - if you want to look at it like that. You could say that you make a choice and accept the consequences.

The LA didn’t choose the school but they did choose the teacher, who is the mother of the pupil. As OP says teacher retention is an important issue here.

If you "only" wanted your eldest transported 2 days over 5 days for youngest, transport might agree to that as would be a lot cheaper (probably half the cost based on distances being similar), so effective use of resources.

Regardless you can ask for mileage for youngest, to help with cost, if you didn't want to use a taxi for youngest.

@urbanbuddha This school has accepted the Dc1 because it could. If second Dc cannot get in, so be it. If the school has a teacher sibling category, it wasn’t reached. The admissions policy is legal. It cannot be chsbgex until at least 2025. We don’t know if this area really has teacher shortages or not but at the moment it’s optional whether teacher dc are included or not. Many schools don’t make teachers a special category.

@Takeachance18 Why can the op get transport to a non catchment school they chose? Why should the LA agree? It’s the responsibility of parents to get Dc to school, not the LA.

See attached from Cambs.

I share a government report containing details and case studies on the teacher shortages in the LA and you don’t know if the shortages are real?

You're just a troll.

I’m sure you know better though.

Because they LA can't actually give the child a space in the catchment school.

Normally a LA response would be no we aren't paying for transport to out of catchment school, you'll need to switch schools. Which enables them to get the transport cheaper per child, one taxi for Ops two kids, potentially picking up another one or two from the same direction.

But the LA isn't in a position to allow her to switch her schools so yes they should pay for transport.

She is a child, the LA has obligations too. 7 years is a long time circumstances can and do change.

That’s simply not correct. The LA do not have an obligation to provide a place st the catchment school now the parent wants to switch. The parents chose another non catchment school. That normally means getting Dc to school is down to the parents. The LA has provided a school place and for dc1, parents never applied to catchment school. The rules are therefore no transport and no obligation to find a place in catchment scjool. Dc can go on waiting list like anyone else. The LA is correct in what it’s doing. It might have looked at transport if non catchment school was nearest school but it’s not. I’m not sure why you are confused about the obligations of parents and LAs @Sugarfree23 ?

So your trying to say that if the parents end up in a situation where neither of them can drive (illness, driving ban, separation) LA has absolutely no obligation to provide transport.

We aren't talking about a mile or two mile walk we are talking 6 or 7 miles on country roads. And unlikely to have a public bus either.

Because 10 trips is cheaper than 4 trips (round trips), so they agree to a cheaper/ more efficient use of resources - yes parent responsibility but also LA responsibility to ensure youngest can get to school (like the ridiculous proposal banks need to provide free access to money, e.g via a post office in rural areas within 3 miles, where I grew up plenty of places over 3 miles from a post office). My primary school was served by several buses, intact no-one except the school caretaker lived within 0.5 miles and that was the local farm. Our closest school wasn't actually our catchment school and that is another big issue for rural parents as transport is to nearest, which might not be the catchment, particularly at secondary.

That is irrelevant. You have to qualify for transport. At the moment. The op doesn’t. What don’t you understand? The policy is written (as it is everywhere) to avoid excessive costs. It is not LA responsibility to get any child to school unless they qualify. Nearest school in Cambridgeshire dies but op isn’t around to even put child into transport or at the end of the day. Transport is not a social service for working families who haven’t chosen their catchment school.

The LA can't wash their hands of the case, the child is entitled to transport.

Even if it means moving schools to get it.
The LA can't reasonably say no we have no spaces and no we aren't doing transport to out of catchment school.

The YOUNGER child is likely to be entitled to transport - though this depends on how the LA has interpreted ‘applied to’. Presumably the catchment/ designated school was a lower choice than the out if catchment one for OP, but I assume / hopr it was on their application form as a lower preference.

The older one is not entitled to transport, because they are attending the OP’s preferred school, which is not their catchment one. This is a very common situation in which transport is not provided.

As with all of these aspect of school admissions, it’s critical to read what the regulations actually say, not ‘how you would like them to work’.