State School Rules for Accepting 3 Year Old?

[saurusy]

Our child turns 3 shortly and we have been set on (and accepted) for a 5 day full time funded place at a local state school that has a mixed pre-school and nursery with 3 and 4 year olds in attendance. Suddenly the school has stated that because of our childs age they will not be able to manage him and recommend that he only attend part time, which will create a number of issues.
Our child is extremely boisterous, loves play, and due to issues which meant that has opportunities to interact with other children to date have been limited, he is extremely over excited when in contact with other children.
Our child is already learning about lots of stuff and loves doing so. We feel that having him in an organised setting rather than one where he just runs around all day (and gets extremely bored doing so after a while without sufficient stimulation) will be beneficial to him.
What are the hard and fast rules? Can a state school refuse the child?

He already has a place at the school by entering at nursery/pre-school stage and within the school rules he would have that place until Year 6. If you are in England that is really extremely unlikely, you have to reapply for a Reception place by mid January, regardless, and compete with all applicants from both the preschool and external to be allocated a place according to the admissions policy. An EHCP naming the school would place you in the top priority category. if , however, you are in Wales, NI or Scotland it may differ in which case the whole finding issue may differ too, might be worth clarifying.

To be honest I think OP has just agreed with whatever type of funding people have mentioned im not sure she actually knows.

OP I would suggest asking the school od you can have a meeting and clarify what is going on as you seem a little confused about the whole thing.

There is a child in my child's school nursery class who behaved in the way you describe. He was genuinely uncontrollable, running out of the classroom/school hall. It was obvious that he wasn't misbehaving, he's a lovely child he just couldn't understand that you had to follow rules.
After the initial settling in that everyone did he did short days and was picked up and collected from the office. As the year moved on he had a one to one, he then started being dropped off from the playground but pick up was still early via the office but he now does full days and pick up is now with all the other children. He really needed this prolonged settling period to get to grips with the behavior expected in a school setting. I'm obviously not privy to his actual development progress but behaviorally he has made massive progress.
I would trust the teachers for now and push for longer hours when you see how he is coping

Inclusion funding would also not be given because of a child's age though? It's for children who have low level or emerging special educational needs or disability and because of these require more support.

For example, this is Lewisham's criteria

Early Years providers can apply for inclusion funding for a child in their setting if they meet the following criteria:

• They are accessing the early entitlement for three & four year olds (15 hours universal childcare or 30 hours extended entitlement) OR they are a two-year-old child that turns three during the term of application
• The setting provides additional SEN support which is above what would be provided for all children
• Assessments of the child demonstrate a delay of approximately 12 months in two or more areas of learning e.g. speaking and making relationships.

OP, is this child your first or only? I wonder whether you have experience of what the expected behaviour of a child of your child's age would be, and can gauge whether your child's development is differing from expected. Reading between the lines, I would say that the setting are telling you that they believe your child's behaviour needs extra support. As a parent, I would listen to them, the professionals, and grab any help, advice and support with both hands. They are on the same team as you - the team that wants the best early years experience and outcomes for your child.

Then you REALLY need a chat with the school as to why he needs 1-1.

Seriously, it looks like the school is on the board and your dc needs more support.
You need to ask them what they see that you don’t. It’s not always easy to see what sort if issue your dc has 1- if you have no other child you can compare with and 2- it has been your normal so doesn’t look out of place.

You seem to have found a good supportive school. Work with them. Keep the communication with them as open as possible.

I’ll be honest, my experience with schools is that they usually underplay children’s difficulties. If they tell you, he needs support, then I would assume he does.

As an update to those interested;

This morning have spoke to our childs current setting. Whilst they have only had him for 2.5 months and there is an amount of settling in, they are genuinely puzzled as to why the new setting are set on applying for Inclusion Funding. The current setting has categorically stated to both me and the new setting that they have not expressed any behavioural concerns. The only concern is the pushing habit, which they understand is just a phase. The new setting have asked the current setting for 'further evidence of behaviour' to support the application, with the current setting saying (to me) that they are unable to provide any.
The root cause seemingly that an observer of another child a number of weeks ago saw our child pushing other children and has reported this to the new setting as a behavioural issue.
We are waiting for feedback from the new setting as to the basis on which Inclusion funding is sought.

Thank you to all those that have provided comments and feedback.

@saurusy please do check the admissions criteria for the new school for the Reception class intake next academic year. You need to apply for a school place this starting this autumn, deadline by early Jan 2024, in order to have a state school place offer for Sept 2024. Having a place in the preschool won't guarantee entry to the reception class.

Our child generally follows rules (as much as children do his age). He doesn't run out of rooms any more than other children his age. Whilst he is bigger, stronger and displays a lot of stamina/energy, 99% of his play is in line with other children. The only issue that has been highlighted is his pushing when over excited, which he does not as an act of aggression, but do get attention and get others to play with him.

my 2nd is due to start at FT school nursery in September too, he was 3 a couple of weeks ago. He too will do a 30 min settling session and then start FT in September, as is the absolute norm here. The biggest difference between mine and yours is that mine has been in a FT day nursery setting since he was 9 months old due to work commitments.

Couple of questions - the preschool/nursery place does not guarantee a place in the school from reception, are you in the catchment area for the school? if not you may have to change settings again when school places are allocated.

Is there not a private daycare/nursery or childminder setting locally which could utilise the 30 funded hours? We are only swapping settings as DS1 is already in the school so ease of drop offs and pickups otherwise he would stay at the day nursery - they follow the same guidelines as the school for learning at early years age.

Hopefully you've been in touch with the school today to clarify all the facts and you've got round to checking the admission code for the school to make sure your child will actually be eligible for the place you will soon apply for ready for next September. Fingers crossed you've been able to get some more answers.

The OP seems to be ignoring posters who mention this.

@saurusy You need to check this as you seem to think attending the preschool means your child has a place in Reception next year which isn't the case.

Pushing when wanting other children to play with you can be extremely unwanted behaviour. If the pushing results in the other child falling over for example then it is similar to hitting isn't it, as the result is the other child gets hurt. Best not to minimize this behaviour.

OP is it an independent school?
At your son’s age experienced early years practitioners can often have a sense that a child has SEN such as ADHD even though it’s too early for a diagnosis.
I’d be asking a lot more questions and for honest answers. Are you sure it’s the right setting? A lot of prep schools really struggle with handling unwanted behaviour and this can end up to the detriment of the child.

@saurusy am I right in saying that the new school actually has NOT seen your child in setting? That they are relying on hearsay?

If they are, they are bonkers, sorry.

Whether it’s me or other posters, I think everyone posted with the idea that the new school had seen for themselves how your dc behaves. In which case, all of the advice applies.
But if they haven’t…. Then … I don’t know …. Review your options 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ because that’s not right at all.

@HalfasleepChrisintheMorning - it says state school in the title

@QueensBees OP has said they went out and visited Nursery.

Actually though, the information a Nursery provides to a school during a good transition, isn't 'hearsay' it is valuable information which can help the child's transition enormously. Not that a nursery could apply for inclusion funding until they are in setting and settled, except in exceptional circumstances, but it is hardly 'hearsay'.

Yes our son was an equally large size. The private nursery were used to it. Tbh what you are saying about the preschool is ringing alarm bells in that they only want to deal with submissive or quiet kids possibly. Why do you think your child won’t be brought on in his current setting?