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Original poster

State School Rules for Accepting 3 Year Old?

116 replies

saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:17

Our child turns 3 shortly and we have been set on (and accepted) for a 5 day full time funded place at a local state school that has a mixed pre-school and nursery with 3 and 4 year olds in attendance. Suddenly the school has stated that because of our childs age they will not be able to manage him and recommend that he only attend part time, which will create a number of issues.
Our child is extremely boisterous, loves play, and due to issues which meant that has opportunities to interact with other children to date have been limited, he is extremely over excited when in contact with other children.
Our child is already learning about lots of stuff and loves doing so. We feel that having him in an organised setting rather than one where he just runs around all day (and gets extremely bored doing so after a while without sufficient stimulation) will be beneficial to him.
What are the hard and fast rules? Can a state school refuse the child?

OP posts:
Shinyandnew1 · 13/07/2023 20:44

You don’t get an EHCP for being animated. I presume they feel his behaviour means that he cannot safely be in the setting full time without a 1:1.

Have they said he can start part time?

kiwiandcherries · 13/07/2023 20:45

It sounds as though the decision is about his behaviour and additional needs, not his age

Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:46

MissRainbowBrite · 13/07/2023 20:41

If the school believe that your child may need additional support, which they do as an EHCP is being applied for then that will require additional staff for him which can't be provided until the EHCP is in place and the funding has come through which that provides. The nursery will be considering his needs and the needs of the other children.
What do you mean by boisterous? And does he turn 3 before 31st August?

He has an engine that doesn't stop. And as he is very tall and strong for his age (over the 99.6th percentile) the school is concerned of potential injury to other children. He is 3 in August.

OP posts:
Mayim · 13/07/2023 20:48

If the school is applying for an EHCP, I would expect that they would also have made referrals to other professionals - for example the Child Development Team. They can't just apply for an EHCP because they see your child as 'boisterous'. Have they discussed any referrals with you?

Calloffruity · 13/07/2023 20:48

So their concern is about far more than just his age then

YourNameGoesHere · 13/07/2023 20:48

kiwiandcherries · 13/07/2023 20:45

It sounds as though the decision is about his behaviour and additional needs, not his age

Agreed. To be honest it certainly doesn't sound like he would cope well in the school from what you've said so far. He sounds like he would be better suited to a private nursery setting.

Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:48

Mayim · 13/07/2023 20:48

If the school is applying for an EHCP, I would expect that they would also have made referrals to other professionals - for example the Child Development Team. They can't just apply for an EHCP because they see your child as 'boisterous'. Have they discussed any referrals with you?

No, nothing.

OP posts:
Snugglemonkey · 13/07/2023 20:50

saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:46

He has an engine that doesn't stop. And as he is very tall and strong for his age (over the 99.6th percentile) the school is concerned of potential injury to other children. He is 3 in August.

Show quote history

Do you understand that they need to balance the needs of your son with the needs of other children? They ate willing to provide a place, but not until they are sure everyone is safe. Surely this is sensible? Why would you argue? Also, surely it is in his best interests to defer?

Changethetoner · 13/07/2023 20:51

Your child is two. Did you actually apply for a primary school place for this September? If you did, and they initially accepted him, it would have been a clerical error, which they are now trying to correct. An appropriate place could be in a nursery or preschool setting. Some children in nursery get a 1:1 so hopefully that can be arranged. Meanwhile, be firm with him about being gentle with other children, a gentle giant is okay, a boisterous and rough giant, not so much.

IhearyouClemFandango · 13/07/2023 20:53

Why do you want him to go? It doesn't sound suitable.

MissRainbowBrite · 13/07/2023 20:55

If the nursery have observed him and believe he needs a 1:1 to be safe in the nursery and ensure the safety of others then they will only provide hours that they can have suitable supervision for him.
As someone else has said, is school nursery really the right setting if he's not 3 yet? Does he display behaviours at places you take him to with other children around?

Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:56

Changethetoner · 13/07/2023 20:51

Your child is two. Did you actually apply for a primary school place for this September? If you did, and they initially accepted him, it would have been a clerical error, which they are now trying to correct. An appropriate place could be in a nursery or preschool setting. Some children in nursery get a 1:1 so hopefully that can be arranged. Meanwhile, be firm with him about being gentle with other children, a gentle giant is okay, a boisterous and rough giant, not so much.

Applied and accepted for 3 year old place at mixed nursery / preschool group in school. He is actually pretty gentle and of course is going through huge development as each month goes by.

OP posts:
Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:59

MissRainbowBrite · 13/07/2023 20:55

If the nursery have observed him and believe he needs a 1:1 to be safe in the nursery and ensure the safety of others then they will only provide hours that they can have suitable supervision for him.
As someone else has said, is school nursery really the right setting if he's not 3 yet? Does he display behaviours at places you take him to with other children around?

He will be 3. There won't be any more supervision if he was there part time or full time without any additional funding. Display behaviours? He is confident and happy playing with children of all ages. 3 weeks ago he played football with 10 year olds (albeit he chased after them most of the time while they were kicking the ball).

OP posts:
Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 21:01

IhearyouClemFandango · 13/07/2023 20:53

Why do you want him to go? It doesn't sound suitable.

It is the only option available to bring him on. He is desperate to learn (loves it) and only other setting available doesn't provide any stimulation.

OP posts:
jannier · 13/07/2023 21:01

CopperSeahorses · 13/07/2023 20:24

Is there an EHCP in place for your child?

Why op doesn't say there are special needs?

Hellocatshome · 13/07/2023 21:02

I think you should have a discussion with them about why they are applying for an EHCP as they will not be applying.for it because of his age or his size.

LacieLane · 13/07/2023 21:03

It could depend on the type of school and the education authority. Academy or a maintained school and where?

Have you looked on the school website for their admissions policy for nursery. As an example this is for nursery places in Lancashires maintained school.

What does the school or LA policy say for the school you want your son to attend?
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/children-education-families/early-years-childcare-and-family-support/nursery-school-admission-policy-for-maintained-nurseries/

Nursery School Admission Policy for Maintained Nurseries – 2023/24

https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/children-education-families/early-years-childcare-and-family-support/nursery-school-admission-policy-for-maintained-nurseries/

Mayim · 13/07/2023 21:05

I feel that if the school is applying for an EHCP, but your child hasn't been referred to any professionals for further advice, something is missing from the process.

Did your child have a 2 year check from your local Health Visiting team? As the school are raising these concerns, it would be a good idea to arrange for your child to be seen by a health visitor, so that they could do a proper assessment of their needs.

jannier · 13/07/2023 21:05

saurusy · 13/07/2023 20:26

The school has stated that they will be applying for funding.

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Don't they mean you give them the 30 hour code and they apply for the free entitlement? Raising an EHCP is a very long process done in your name for a child who has a Sen it takes a very long time has he seen an Educational Psychologist? You can't get one just for being the youngest in a year.

Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 21:10

Hellocatshome · 13/07/2023 21:02

I think you should have a discussion with them about why they are applying for an EHCP as they will not be applying.for it because of his age or his size.

This is what they have stated. Because he is so young he will need extra support that they do not have. They did not expect a child so young to be taking up a place (even though the places are open for age 3 before September 1st). They have discussed part time for few months from September to review later on in the year.

OP posts:
jannier · 13/07/2023 21:10

saurusy · 13/07/2023 21:01

It is the only option available to bring him on. He is desperate to learn (loves it) and only other setting available doesn't provide any stimulation.

Show quote history

I'm a childminder I take children who stay to the reception year we are always doing educational things all the children write their names by 3.....but as in all settings it's done with play following the EYFS school does no different. Yes we have large group stories and singing (up to 30 children) lunch club twice a week with 10 children. But school nursery does no different.

mrsm43s · 13/07/2023 21:13

The preschool are telling you that they cannot manage him full time, and therefore they cannot offer him a full time place.

He doesn't have the entitlement to a full time state school place until the term after he turns 4.

I think there is some important detail missing tbh. An EHCP being applied for suggests that he has some kind of needs that are different from the majority of his peers. It won't be because of his age, his size or for being energetic as most 3 year olds are. There is something about either his behaviour or his physical needs that means he needs extra support.

I'd suggest you work with the preschool to ensure that he gets the support he needs to get the most out of his early education.

Original poster
saurusy · 13/07/2023 21:13

jannier · 13/07/2023 21:05

Don't they mean you give them the 30 hour code and they apply for the free entitlement? Raising an EHCP is a very long process done in your name for a child who has a Sen it takes a very long time has he seen an Educational Psychologist? You can't get one just for being the youngest in a year.

Show quote history

No idea, can only go on what the school are telling us! They have told us they wish to apply for 1 to 1 funding for support because of his age and as he is 'so young' is likely to disrupt the learning of the group.

OP posts:
jannier · 13/07/2023 21:14

saurusy · 13/07/2023 21:10

This is what they have stated. Because he is so young he will need extra support that they do not have. They did not expect a child so young to be taking up a place (even though the places are open for age 3 before September 1st). They have discussed part time for few months from September to review later on in the year.

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Doesn't sound like much of a school if the nursery cannot deal with the young 3 year olds a typical school will have around 1/12 of children turning 3 in August. They can't do EHCPs for them that's ridiculous I've raised EHCPs and you have to have a real need.

mrsm43s · 13/07/2023 21:17

saurusy · 13/07/2023 21:10

This is what they have stated. Because he is so young he will need extra support that they do not have. They did not expect a child so young to be taking up a place (even though the places are open for age 3 before September 1st). They have discussed part time for few months from September to review later on in the year.

Show quote history

An EHCP is NOT for "being young". It is for additional support required because of additional needs.